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Thread: [SOLVED] Apple Mail.app mailbox behaviours configuration

  1. #1
    yonatan is offline Special Member
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    Default [SOLVED] Apple Mail.app mailbox behaviours configuration

    Quick check of my Mail.app settings when connecting to ZCS via IMAPS.

    I currently have "Store junk messages on the server" unchecked. Should I store them on the server for Zimbra's SPAM filters to work?

    Thanks
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  2. #2
    Tripple is offline Elite Member
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    I don't think so. The OSX spamfilter will move spam to another folder and learn from that. This has nothing to do with Zimbra (yet?).

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    yonatan is offline Special Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripple View Post
    I don't think so. The OSX spamfilter will move spam to another folder and learn from that. This has nothing to do with Zimbra (yet?).
    Hmm..should I disable "Junk mail filtering" in Mail.app and let Zimbra do the work?

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    Tripple is offline Elite Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by yonatan View Post
    Hmm..should I disable "Junk mail filtering" in Mail.app and let Zimbra do the work?
    Zimbra is already doing the work but won't learn from mail.app.

    It depends on what you want to do. Avoid reading spam or learning Zimbra what spam is.

    If spam is not tagged, the only way to learn Zimbra is using the web UI (and maybe Zimbra Desktop, not sure).

  5. #5
    yonatan is offline Special Member
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    On Google's GMAIL setup page it says:

    Junk mail and spam:

    Do NOT enable your client's junk mail filters. Gmail's spam filters also work in your IMAP client, and we recommend turning off any additional anti-spam or junk mail filters within your client. Your client's filter will attempt to download and classify all of your existing messages, which may slow down your client until the process is complete.
    Is this also true for Zimbra? Anyone from Zimbra who can please recommend what to do.

    Thanks

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    yonatan is offline Special Member
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    Ok I might have found an answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by http://bugzilla.zimbra.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9532#c70
    Every email account comes with a spam folder - this folder exists in every
    account and is created automatically.

    (as far as I know, when using the outlook connector, this folder shows in
    outlook as "Junk Mail" or "Junk")

    When a user in the web interface either A) moves an email into this folder or
    B) clicks the "Spam" button when viewing the email an extra step is performed,
    not only is the email moved to the spam folder. Its also queued for processing
    by the spam filter/trainer.

    When a user in imap/outlook either A) moves an email into this folder or B)
    clicks the "Junk" button when viewing the email, the extra step was not being
    performed, and the message, while it was moved to the Junk/Spam folder, was NOT
    queued for processing by the spam filter/trainer.

    All that has changed, is that this extra step is automatically, in the
    background, performed.

    No settings need to be changed, no extra actions need to be taken by users - it
    just happens.

    Now, if you not using the built in, automatically created, "Spam" folder to
    store your spam, then none of the extra actions will be performed, and
    therefore the email will not be processed by the spam filter/trainer.

    Hope this helps,

    Kiall
    Quote Originally Posted by http://bugzilla.zimbra.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9532#c71
    Also I forgot to mention, The reverse happens when the "Not Spam"/"Not Junk"
    button is clicked OR if the email is moved out of the spam folder... IE when
    the email is moved from the spam folder, it is sent to the spam filters for
    training as "not spam"...

    Kiall
    Can someone from Zimbra please confim that the above is true for Mail.app.

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    yonatan is offline Special Member
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    My testing shows that using Mail.app and dragging mail in and out of the junk folder will in fact send the mail to the spam and ham accounts, respectively! In other words, Zimbra's spam filter will learn from Mail.app.

    By the way, Google's advice to disable Mail.app's Junk Mail Filtering is correct! In fact even Stanford University who use Zimbra suggest this to their users. You can leave Mail.app's filtering on, BUT it is redundant and from my experience will not be very accurate. Better to leave it to Zimbra on the server-side.

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    ewilen is offline Moderator
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    My experience differs from the advice in this thread, and I've specified that Mail.app spam filtering be turned on for my Mac users.

    However you should not only leave it on, but you should also select Zimbra's Junk folder within Mail.app, and then do Mailbox > use this Mailbox for > Junk. (And configure similarly for Trash, Draft, and Sent.)

    With this configuration, both Mail.app and Zimbra will learn from any re-classification you perform. You do have to be careful, when marking a message as "Not Junk" in Mail, to also drag it out of the Junk folder--unlike Zimbra Web Client, it doesn't get moved automatically.

    Even after a fair amount of tuning on ZCS, I still find that Mail.app catches a few things that ZCS misses. The neat thing about this setup is that Mail is also training ZCS for you.

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    yonatan is offline Special Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewilen View Post
    With this configuration, both Mail.app and Zimbra will learn from any re-classification you perform. You do have to be careful, when marking a message as "Not Junk" in Mail, to also drag it out of the Junk folder--unlike Zimbra Web Client, it doesn't get moved automatically.
    Yeah, this is what I found in my testing and googling, i.e. that they learn from each other. However, I find Mail.app's junk filtering implementation faulty. As you mentioned, if you mark a message as "Not Junk" it will not move that message out of the Junk folder and into Inbox. This means that although Mail.app has learnt that it is not SPAM, Zimbra has not because the message must be dragged out of the Junk folder for it to be sent to Zimbra's HAM account. This alone was enough for me to disable Mail.app's junk mail filtering because it is inconsistent behaviour and makes it complicated for my users.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewilen
    Even after a fair amount of tuning on ZCS, I still find that Mail.app catches a few things that ZCS misses. The neat thing about this setup is that Mail is also training ZCS for you.
    I'm sure that it works well, but until Mail.app's filtering behaviour is improved I'll keep it disabled.

    FYI, I keep it on for my personal MobileMe account as disabling it doesn't stop emails getting coloured brown..but that's a separate "bug"

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