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Thread: Why is Zimbra so buggy?

  1. #41
    jholder's Avatar
    jholder is offline Former Zimbran
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    Thanks for all the feedback. I seriously mean that.

    The sad fact is, no matter how hard a company tries, there will always be those who don't like them, or their product. If someone has made up their mind on an issue, it usually takes a lot to persuade them otherwise.

    I had similar incident with Symantec's Norton Antivirus for windows. For years, I hated it. Bloated, and really just crapware. It was sometimes better to run the risk of getting a virus because running norton just made it impossible to use the computer.

    When I got my new laptop, I researched, and found a review on their new 2009 product. I thought I would give them another try based upon the article. Sure enough, every single problem I had with their software, they fixed. It was fast, reliable, secure, and quite honestly, a great user experence. I now love it, an don't mind it at all.

    My point is that companies do try. Sometimes they fail, and sometimes they win users back. But no matter what, someone will be unhappy.

    The needs and wants of the majority always outrule the minority. Hence, Bug voting.

    In a stunning bit of cander, I will say this: Yep, sometimes we make mistakes. Sometimes we miscalulate thngs (ie Read Receipts). Sometimes we don't listen as well as we should.

    But isnt that the mark of a good company? The people you know, are still here. We still try to listen, and we don't really censor. We work for you, you pay our bills.

    I'm reminded of the whole Microsoft thing. When the buyout offer was made, people worried about Zimbra. Our response:
    "We've got biger things to focus on than Microsoft's offer. We have a job to do."

    That, my friends, is a mark of a good company. Somone who can aknowloedge their faults, try hard to fix them, and never settle.

    Hope we can do better in the future.

    -john

  2. #42
    carr is offline Active Member
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    I think, that what a company produces reflects their standards.
    I don't know much about user experience and bugs on the frontend, as don't use it. But for me programming Zimlets and changing skins means constant frustration.
    Frustration because of a complete lack of good documentation.
    Frustration because not one developer takes a look into the forums, answering questions, that would take them about 5 minutes, instead of a hole day for me browsing through code or trying to guess soap requests.
    Frustration because I find HTML inside core JavaScript files instead of Template files.
    Frustration because of inconsistent use of code or frontend elements (e.g. checkboxes).
    Frustration because of poor HTML and CSS and no attempt to clean it up (e.g. tables everywhere!)
    Frustration because a lot of dynamically created elements don't differ in CSS classes even though they are different (e.g. OK_BUTTON and CANCEL_BUTTON)
    Frustration because even the support doesn't answer development questions... am I supposed to guess everything?

    I do really really think, that the Zimbra frontend is a bad product. Yes it is hard to put in such functionality and keep sane. Yes it is hard to have clean code. But for ****s sake write a documentation or at least answer questions in the forums.
    People would actually contribute if they would know how.
    And please no more features. There are enough. Try to clean up your code... just once.
    Last edited by carr; 07-16-2009 at 12:18 PM.

  3. #43
    rschoenbach is offline Starter Member
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    Hi,
    Yes, it WAS a browser question, and I solved it. Next two questions that ARE Zimbra:

    1) What is the best place (forums, wikis, etc.) to go to just ask a simple user question like the following?

    2) How can one attach multiple documents onto an email without having to go through the cumbersome search, attach clicks for each one?

    Thanks.

  4. #44
    edwin.arneson's Avatar
    edwin.arneson is offline Active Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by carr View Post
    And please no more features. There are enough. Try to clean up your code... just once.
    Since they need to complete with desktop clients like Thunderbird and Outlook, there are features that are missing and should be included.

    However, I think they should pause the addition of new features to fix bugs and cleanup things for a while. Also, I still think that there are some fundamental issues that need to be addressed somewhere in their development and/or testing processes that allow products to be released with so many obvious bugs.

  5. #45
    ewilen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rschoenbach View Post
    Hi,
    Yes, it WAS a browser question, and I solved it. Next two questions that ARE Zimbra:

    1) What is the best place (forums, wikis, etc.) to go to just ask a simple user question like the following?

    2) How can one attach multiple documents onto an email without having to go through the cumbersome search, attach clicks for each one?

    Thanks.
    The forum is the place, although searching the forum will often get you an answer faster than just posting w/o doing some research.

    If you have IT staff that are maintaining Zimbra, I would ask them before anything.

    In answer to (2) I believe you can drag & drop attachments with Firefox. You might need to have a FF plugin.

  6. #46
    carr is offline Active Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwin.arneson View Post
    Since they need to complete with desktop clients like Thunderbird and Outlook, there are features that are missing and should be included.
    Sorry but a naked Thinderbird client does not have that many features. But people are contributing throughout plugins, because there is DOCUMENTATION. Zimlets are supposed to be the plugins for Zimbra, but no one wants to put up with such a mess.

  7. #47
    carr is offline Active Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by nrc View Post
    If we're talking about focus of effort, I'd have to say that the desktop version is probably the effort that could best be sacrificed for a greater focus on documentation, clean-up, and bug fixes.
    I'm not sure though, but I think the desktop version is not such an effort. It is basically a trimmed Zimbra server using Mozilla Prism.

    However, I agree with you on focusing on documentation, clean-up and bug fixes.

    @jholder:
    When compared to Norton Virus you are in the "bloated not so good working" phase.
    I'm sorry to say this, but at the moment you are not such a "good" company, because it takes more to be one then just being there.
    I agree with you though that it is normal to make mistakes, but it also depends on the kind of mistakes and the way you handle them.

    Since I started using Zimbra, I never had the feeling that you are really talking to your community. Take a look at this thread. Your are the only one participating.
    We don't want to hear that you are great company. We want to see results =)

  8. #48
    gweldon is offline Starter Member
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    Default Zimbra is not a good product

    I made the mistake of choosing Zimbra for my mail server offering. The product was the buggiest crap I have ever worked with, I received critical bug fix notifications one and a half years after it destroyed my business. If anyone tries to sell you on Zimbra I can only say one thing: "RUN!!! RUN LIKE HELL!!!"

    To think they are offering this bloatware as a Virtual machine is a bad joke. Anyone who knows anything about virtual machines knows that they are no good for heavy disk I/O. Everyone knows this except Zimbra I guess.....
    Last edited by gweldon; 11-14-2011 at 05:30 AM. Reason: wrote heavy I/O instead of heavy disk I/O

  9. #49
    bdial's Avatar
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    There isn't much that can't be virtualized these days with the right hardware. People are virtualizing exchange, sql server, and other high i/o apps all the time now.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by gweldon View Post
    I made the mistake of choosing Zimbra for my mail server offering. The product was the buggiest crap I have ever worked with, I received critical bug fix notifications one and a half years after it destroyed my business. If anyone tries to sell you on Zimbra I can only say one thing: "RUN!!! RUN LIKE HELL!!!"

    To think they are offering this bloatware as a Virtual machine is a bad joke. Anyone who knows anything about virtual machines knows that they are no good for heavy disk I/O. Everyone knows this except Zimbra I guess.....
    Perhaps you could substantiate what you are saying by the type of issues you encountered ?

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