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Thread: It was an interesting experience

  1. #11
    mdekkers is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by raj View Post
    Just curious under OVL from MS..do they give phone support for exchange "included" in monthly/yearly liscence cost? or you have to pay some X$ per incidence.
    Hi Raj,

    I negotiated some incidents on my deal, I am not sure what comes as standard. I don't really intend to use these for Exchange, as Exchange support is almost as useless as Zimbra support.

    Exchange is certainly not superior, technically, or support wise, over Zimbra, and it has many issues. I have been working with email systems of all shapes and sizes for the past 15 years (i have architected and deployed solution ranging from 5 seat setups all the way up to a 350000 seat, international Exchange deployment) and if I had the time I would have built a courier/postfix/mysql/openchange solution. In my current position, I have neither the time nor the inclination to play with email, so I want something out of the box, that Just Works, and doesnt send all my data to Google.

    If I thought Exchange was better in any way, I would not have chosen
    Zimbra last year to begin with.

    However, my point is that Zimbra offers me the same atrocious service and technical instability that I can get with Exchange, and I have to pay more for the privilege. Given that the CAL is part of my OVL, and I don't get anything better from Zimbra, I fail to see to upside of paying for Zimbra.

    Asking this specific question here, and outlining exactly *why* I am asking it, results in the same arrogant and unresponsive answers I have received from Zimbra all along.

    Bringing up the spectre of cost for Exchange support in a thread about the sucky Zimbra support strikes me as asinine.

  2. #12
    uxbod's Avatar
    uxbod is offline Moderator
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    Do you think you would have had a better response if you were on a supported platform ? If you have the time and inclination perhaps you could detail some of the issues you have experienced (technical and not sales/support related ) as it may help others.

  3. #13
    mdekkers is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by uxbod View Post
    Do you think you would have had a better response if you were on a supported platform?
    As I said, I was on a supported platform, despite the trolling of Zimbra staff. We have had issues with the server, and issues with outlook integration. Issues with the server were mostly with the logging components failing, and thrashing their MySQL tables.

    Issues with Outlook were / are plenty:
    • sending or receiving mails larger then 40MB thrashes the connector
    • mails randomly appear/dissapear in outlook
    • outlook connector doesn't sync regularly
    • sending mails in outlook doesn't actually send them
    • attachments to mails in outlook are gone in zimbra

  4. #14
    phoenix is offline Zimbra Consultant & Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdekkers View Post
    I pay for support....?
    As you've raised this subject, let's try this from another perspective.

    Quote Originally Posted by mdekkers View Post
    As I said, I was on a supported platform, despite the trolling of Zimbra staff. We have had issues with the server, and issues with outlook integration. Issues with the server were mostly with the logging components failing, and thrashing their MySQL tables.

    Issues with Outlook were / are plenty:

    * sending or receiving mails larger then 40MB thrashes the connector
    * mails randomly appear/dissapear in outlook
    * outlook connector doesn't sync regularly
    * sending mails in outlook doesn't actually send them
    * attachments to mails in outlook are gone in zimbra
    I'd be interested to hear what happened. According to that post I guess you raised five(?) support cases for ZCO and one case for problems with the logger, what was the outcome when you raised each these problems with support?

    In your first post you also mentioned that "There is more...", did you also raise these with support if you did what was the outcome from those cases?
    Regards


    Bill


    Acompli: A new adventure for Co-Founder KevinH.

  5. #15
    LMStone's Avatar
    LMStone is offline Moderator
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    I think it's unreasonable to expect that any software package, especially one as complex as Zimbra, will be acceptable to all who try it--for whatever reason(s).

    What is interesting to me--and granted as a Zimbra Hosting Partner there is a bit of self-interest here--is that the OP found it cost effective to self-host a mission-critical groupware platform (Zimbra, Exchange, or otherwise) for 20 users.

    By the time you factor in the amortized cost of the hardware, downtime from local ISP outages, maintenance of the server, monitoring, etc., paying for a hosted service (Zimbra, Exchange or otherwise) for that small amount of users we have found to be much less hassle and certainly much less cost than self-hosting. Even when doing Exchange hosting direct from Microsoft.

    I'd also be interested to know from the OP the rationale for attempting to deploy NE on Debian in the first instance. We like Debian very much, but as it's unsupported have never tried to install Zimbra on it.

    Best regards to all,
    Mark

  6. #16
    Yann2 is offline Active Member
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    This is quite an interesting topic. Disclaimer: Zimbra 5.0.11 NE supported user speaking.

    I am also getting tons of "he didn't get that email" or "I should have received an email" complaints. With a lot of anger, rudeness etc most of the time. And then after some logs reading it appears that either:
    - the mail system at the other end is failing
    - the address the mail was sent to is incorrect

    I believe Zimbra is a fairly good and reliable piece of software and to be fair, it seems slightly unprofessional to me that you haven't reported the bugs you have been experiencing on the bugzilla - as it is to me the best way to get them fixed (as in any other opensource software). Pointing the support to it helps, if you have some.

    It also seems weird that you have been running Zimbra on an unsupported platform and paid for support. I am actually positively surprised Zimbra supported you. Then again, Zimbra is not cheap if you pay twice the licenses, there may be room for improvement here. But Zimbra is also much more than exchange; did you think about antispam with exchange? No? well, good luck.
    It also has many features (IM, shared folders, tasklists) which my users certainly like and would miss.

    I also have to disagree regarding the professionalism of the support. I once had an issue at 4 in the morning at the end of a migration, and had someone call me an hour later - with the right answer.

    So to summarize: I wish you good luck with exchange, not sure if it is going to be perfect neither though. To some extent I agree with some of your complaints (that logging daemon is crashing, indeed - not sure about that outlook sync, I got some users using it without report til now) - but you surely have gone the wrong way to get those fixed.

    Be constructive, be fair, respect the work of others. And let us know about the level of support you get for exchange

  7. #17
    dijichi2 is offline OpenSource Builder & Moderator
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    I've only ever had to use zimbra support once in some three?ish years of using it - software has performed flawlessly apart from that (although i'm careful not to upgrade until many other people do first on the forums) - and they were superb, very professional and got the problem/bug fixed and patched within a few hours. No way in a billion years M$ or any other vendor would have responded so quickly.

  8. #18
    In_The_Ville is offline Special Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdekkers View Post
    As I said, I was on a supported platform, despite the trolling of Zimbra staff. We have had issues with the server, and issues with outlook integration. Issues with the server were mostly with the logging components failing, and thrashing their MySQL tables.

    Issues with Outlook were / are plenty:
    • sending or receiving mails larger then 40MB thrashes the connector
    • mails randomly appear/dissapear in outlook
    • outlook connector doesn't sync regularly
    • sending mails in outlook doesn't actually send them
    • attachments to mails in outlook are gone in zimbra
    My personal opinion: If you are going to invest the amount of time, money and resources needed to deploy Zimbra, it is time to dump Outlook. I never could stand that program.

    Not an opinion: According to MS, best practice for maximum email attachment size limit is between 5MB and 10MB in Exchange. Good luck with those 40 MB emails.

  9. #19
    In_The_Ville is offline Special Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdekkers View Post
    However, my point is that Zimbra offers me the same atrocious service and technical instability that I can get with Exchange, and I have to pay more for the privilege. Given that the CAL is part of my OVL, and I don't get anything better from Zimbra, I fail to see to upside of paying for Zimbra.

    You have yet to factor in the cost of antivirus, antispam, and a backup solution, all included in Zimbra.

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