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Thread: Um... okay, I don't want this anymore

  1. #11
    KevinH's Avatar
    KevinH is offline Expert Member
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    Zimbra is a mail server and it has a web interface. So if you want or need to use it you'll have to expect it to run somewhere. While I agree we should make it easier to work with your current web server/DB it's not our first priority. Our first priority is to make it very easy to install as a stand-alone collaboration server. Of course since our code and installer is open source if you *really* don't like it you have the freedom to just fix it.

    That said in the future we'll be providing ways to make the install more flexible for those of you who want to run in a mixed or shared server.

    If you just want your mail to get forwarded to Zimbra you can use fecthmail to pull your mail or you can just have your current MTA route mail to Zimbra. Both of these will allow you to store, index, search, etc all your mail and access it via the web interface.

  2. #12
    adefaria is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinH
    Zimbra is a mail server and it has a web interface. So if you want or need to use it you'll have to expect it to run somewhere. While I agree we should make it easier to work with your current web server/DB it's not our first priority. Our first priority is to make it very easy to install as a stand-alone collaboration server. Of course since our code and installer is open source if you *really* don't like it you have the freedom to just fix it.
    Of course you are assuming that I have the ability (I may) and the time (Not as sure about that one)...

    Again, if others have done this or something simpiler I would appreciate a pointer...

    That said in the future we'll be providing ways to make the install more flexible for those of you who want to run in a mixed or shared server.

    If you just want your mail to get forwarded to Zimbra you can use fecthmail to pull your mail or you can just have your current MTA route mail to Zimbra. Both of these will allow you to store, index, search, etc all your mail and access it via the web interface.
    This still doesn't really tell me how I can install the web portion of ZImbra such that it doesn't take over my web site.

    Question: Would this work if I installed Zimbra for another domain name and used Apache's VirtualDomains with difference DocumentRoot's?

  3. #13
    KevinH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adefaria
    This still doesn't really tell me how I can install the web portion of ZImbra such that it doesn't take over my web site.

    Question: Would this work if I installed Zimbra for another domain name and used Apache's VirtualDomains with difference DocumentRoot's?
    The simple thing todo is just remove the 7070 -> 80 iptables rule and let Zimbra run on it's own port. Other's have done it with apache but it's not somthing Zimbra has documented.

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    anand is offline Zimbra Employee
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    Default turnkey vs piecemeal

    For starters, we focused on making our package/install dead simple for turnkey Zimbra installs. Some of our other minor motivations to go this way: (a) we noticed that other collaboration suites were so hard to install for many people - precisely because they had to piece many things on their own - some people can do that, a lot of people do better with an include-all install, and (b) we thought people would derive some comfort is knowing that the combination of packages we shipped is well tested by us.

    So turns out we made the folks who "dedicate box(es) for mail and don't have to run around and tweak the box(es) to death" very very happy.

    On the flip side, our first binary release(s) not so friendly for the "it has to run on my DSL connection, and I already use port 80 for serving my photo album" situation. We WANT TO cater to BOTH requirements. We just don't the piecemeal bits yet. Bear with us.

    Thought you'd like to know why we did what we did.

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    adefaria is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinH
    The simple thing todo is just remove the 7070 -> 80 iptables rule and let Zimbra run on it's own port. Other's have done it with apache but it's not somthing Zimbra has documented.
    I've plumb run out of ports on my router to redirect. Sorry, that's just reality. Right now I simply can't redirect port 7070, or any other port for that matter, to any other IP. My NAT port table has 10 entries and they are all taken.

    When you say "let Zimbra run on it's own port" I have to ask, what is Zimbra in this situation? I mean Zimbra appears to get involved in several services. It listens on port 25 for sending email. It listens on port 143 for getting email. It listens on port 80 for the web interface, etc...

    What I want to do is to use the web portion of Zimbra only. I don't want it involved in sending or receiving email or rather I want it to be able to install with existing port 25 and port 143 services. Additionally I don't want it to take over port 80 at my DocumentRoot rather I'm all OK with it confining itself to some directory under my DocumentRoot.

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    adefaria is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by anand
    For starters, we focused on making our package/install dead simple for turnkey Zimbra installs.
    Not sure what this has to do with "turnkey Zimbra installs". What you mean to say is for systems who don't currently run web services nor email services.

    Some of our other minor motivations to go this way: (a) we noticed that other collaboration suites were so hard to install for many people - precisely because they had to piece many things on their own - some people can do that, a lot of people do better with an include-all install,
    Seems to me it should be relatively simply to have install be smart enough such that if you don't install the smtp portion then Zimbra assumes you have smtp already installed and working properly, and if you don't install imap then Zimbra assumes you have imap already installed and working properly, etc. Same should be true for MySQL. If the customer has MySQL (assuming sufficient version) then you use that - or at least provide them with the option to use their already installed smtp, imap, mysql.

    Finally, give them an option to install under a pre-existing DocumentRoot.

    Otherwise, to simply assume that the user wishes for you to take over their web services, email services, web site, imap services, add users to /etc/passwd that do not get properly removed on uninstall, add crontabs without properly cleaning them out on uninstall is just not right.

    and (b) we thought people would derive some comfort is knowing that the combination of packages we shipped is well tested by us.
    All I'm asking for is the option to keep my services the way I've set them up in the first place. I want Zimbra to work with my pre-existing services - not replace them and cause me additional cleanup work upon uninstall. BTW an uninstall script - even one that simply calls install.sh -u - would be nice.

    So turns out we made the folks who "dedicate box(es) for mail and don't have to run around and tweak the box(es) to death" very very happy.

    On the flip side, our first binary release(s) not so friendly for the "it has to run on my DSL connection, and I already use port 80 for serving my photo album" situation. We WANT TO cater to BOTH requirements. We just don't the piecemeal bits yet. Bear with us.
    While I have a photo album, that is not all I have. Please do not insult people as some of us run more things than just photo albums...

    Thought you'd like to know why we did what we did.
    I'd rather see suggestions about how I can get Zimbra working in my environment.

  7. #17
    KevinH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adefaria
    What I want to do is to use the web portion of Zimbra only.
    This is not supported out of the box, or with any trivial amount of hacking. The system is designed to be used as a whole.

  8. #18
    adefaria is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinH
    This is not supported out of the box, or with any trivial amount of hacking. The system is designed to be used as a whole.
    This is now obvious. It's an inflexible system design then.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by adefaria
    This is now obvious. It's an inflexible system design then.
    Per kevinh's comment of a couple of days ago, "Zimbra is a mail server and it has a web interface....While I agree we should make it easier to work with your current web server/DB it's not our first priority. Our first priority is to make it very easy to install as a stand-alone collaboration server...That said in the future we'll be providing ways to make the install more flexible for those of you who want to run in a mixed or shared server."

    We'd always like to do more, and we plan to in coming releases, but this is where we started in this initial Beta release.

  10. #20
    agnOstos is offline Loyal Member
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    IMHO the guy wants alot for free.

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