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Thread: ZD future EOL

  1. #11
    baifan is offline Banned
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    I hope that from the official Zimbra announced. This is too serious, just on the 4th line in a pdf version of the instructions. Zimbra's team: serious, a real company announced this story

  2. #12
    phoenix is offline Zimbra Consultant & Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by nrc View Post
    Why do you have a web bug embedded in your post?
    For the obvious reason that he's a spammer. I've also removed the link from your quote in the post above, there's no point in giving him further free advertising.
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    Bill


    Acompli: A new adventure for Co-Founder KevinH.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdybik View Post
    I think there is a little misunderstanding. We are not abandoning an offline/cached experience for desktop devices. For Zimbra 9 we are exploring new architectures like native platform clients and offline HTML5 as examples compared to the current architecture of ZD.
    We're just moving in a different technology direction. That's all. I hope this clarifies our intent.
    Release notes : "Zimbra Desktop will EOL in a future release of Zimbra but ZD 7.2 will be supported with Zimbra 8."

    After reading all this, I understand that there will be no more release of ZD after the current ZD 7.1.4 (and a future ZD 7.2), until (at least) Zimbra 9 and a new architecture ?!?
    So I understand it will take years and years using this (what will shortly become an) "old" version of ZD before having a replacement software ?

  4. #14
    phoenix is offline Zimbra Consultant & Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by michelp View Post
    Release notes : "Zimbra Desktop will EOL in a future release of Zimbra but ZD 7.2 will be supported with Zimbra 8."

    After reading all this, I understand that there will be no more release of ZD after the current ZD 7.1.4 (and a future ZD 7.2), until (at least) Zimbra 9 and a new architecture ?!?
    So I understand it will take years and years using this (what will shortly become an) "old" version of ZD before having a replacement software ?
    To my mind, you seem have a rather strange interpretation of 'old software'. ZD 2 will be available and supported for the life of ZCS 8.x and will therefore be the current release of the product, what follows will supersede ZD 2 and will be the new version and at that point ZD 2 will become the 'old version'. Isn't that what normally happens during the development life cycle of products?

    Would you rather Zimbra hadn't said anything until the new version/product was available and then announced the EOL for ZD 7.2 and the new product at the same time to maintain a vision that ZD 7.2 was there forever? I guess from your comments that Zimbra is in a no-win situation whichever course of action they follow.
    Last edited by phoenix; 07-20-2012 at 11:26 PM.
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    Bill


    Acompli: A new adventure for Co-Founder KevinH.

  5. #15
    michelp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix View Post
    ZD 2 will be available and supported for the life of ZCS 8.x and will therefore be the current release of the product, what follows will supersede ZD 2 and will be the new version and at that point ZD 2 will become the 'old version'. Isn't that what normally happens during the development life cycle of products?
    First I'm happy that there will be release(s) that will remain "current" for ZD (I hope "supported" means at least maintained, with releases correcting bugs and hopefully new features from the v8.x server and everything)

    That you write in this forum is far less frightening than the "Zimbra Desktop will EOL in a future release of Zimbra" seen in the NE release notes.

    But, I'm not sure what you understand by "ZD 2" as for now the ZD 7 is released (AFAIK ). Will there be a break and regressing in the versions numbering ? Or do you mean 7.2 ?

    Nevertheless, I want to clarify my position :
    I expect :
    - to have a working desktop-like solution for my customers for who I sell Zimbra NE solutions
    - to have this soltuion not only working, but with same main features as the web-based interface (as it is now)
    - to have the 2 above continuously in the near future with new releases of Zimbra NE server.
    - not to have as a one and only solution an old version of ZD that is no more connected with features in the forthcoming new server releases.
    Whatever the way it is implemented (dedicated desktop software, html 5 or anything else).

    If this is not the case Zimbra will fall in a "no-win situation" as you said (and I now understand this will not be the case, ain't it ? ).

  6. #16
    stuartg.orion is offline Senior Member
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    The biggest place we need the Zimbra Desktop at the moment is for our Mac users. Mail and iCal are nice but they are very incomplete, they (as far as I know) can not work with the GAL and can not provide free/busy information for Zimbra users.

    Outlook on Mac has the same issues.

    So talk of EOF of the Zimbra Desktop is a little scary, I am intrigued to see what the technology will be that will provide complete offline access for my Mac users in the future.

  7. #17
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    Moderators, please could you 'sticky' this thread? Because it is clearly the most important item for any Zimbra Desktop users to be aware of, and to prevent uninformed conjecture.

  8. #18
    sheehanje is offline Junior Member
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    Default It's important for Zimbra users in general

    Quote Originally Posted by storm View Post
    Moderators, please could you 'sticky' this thread? Because it is clearly the most important item for any Zimbra Desktop users to be aware of, and to prevent uninformed conjecture.

    I'm very confused on the whole Zimbra Desktop EOL. We just bought Zimbra at the beginning of the year, but held off on deployment because of the pending 8.0 release, and because we are going to use Ubuntu 12.04LTS and knew this would be supported in 8.0 ... So bear in mind this post is coming from someone who hasn't actually installed the software yet.

    When we decided on Zimbra - one of the keys to the decision was Zimbra Desktop and Zimlets in paticular. We liked the idea of creating a launch point for other application through ZD. We are right now an Exchange 2007 shop, and wanted to first upgrade to Zimbra Network Edition with Outlook 2010 staying on the clients -- then branding Zimbra Desktop and migrating by department from Outlook.

    So, understand the confusion here. Does it make sense for us to move to ZD if it's EOL? Especially seeing we waited so long for deployment to start on current releases of Zimbra and Ubuntu? I guess it doesn't.

    What's the story with Zimlets? again - this was a big selling point for us -- are these still supported, and is it a bad investment to look at developing these?

    Will the Outlook connector still be supported moving forward? I believe we paid extra for this functionality.

    Should we contact our VMWare representatives to go over the changes and what we need to prepare for? None of these changes were mentioned when we started investigating Zimbra as an Exchange replacement. For us to have been able to convince upper management to allow the change - it was based on the technology at that time. We expected upgrades and changes, but this looks like an overhaul of strategy and functionality. Maybe it will be greater than sliced bread for most, but now we either have to install planned EOL software - or we have to use something drastically different from what we were sold.

    Thanks,

    John

  9. #19
    marcusg is offline Intermediate Member
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    I hope you allow me to reply from a mostly happy customer's prospective.

    Quote Originally Posted by sheehanje View Post
    I'm very confused on the whole Zimbra Desktop EOL. We just bought Zimbra at the beginning of the year, but held off on deployment because of the pending 8.0 release, and because we are going to use Ubuntu 12.04LTS and knew this would be supported in 8.0 ... So bear in mind this post is coming from someone who hasn't actually installed the software yet.

    When we decided on Zimbra - one of the keys to the decision was Zimbra Desktop and Zimlets in paticular. We liked the idea of creating a launch point for other application through ZD. We are right now an Exchange 2007 shop, and wanted to first upgrade to Zimbra Network Edition with Outlook 2010 staying on the clients -- then branding Zimbra Desktop and migrating by department from Outlook.

    So, understand the confusion here. Does it make sense for us to move to ZD if it's EOL? Especially seeing we waited so long for deployment to start on current releases of Zimbra and Ubuntu? I guess it doesn't.

    What's the story with Zimlets? again - this was a big selling point for us -- are these still supported, and is it a bad investment to look at developing these?

    Will the Outlook connector still be supported moving forward? I believe we paid extra for this functionality.

    Should we contact our VMWare representatives to go over the changes and what we need to prepare for? None of these changes were mentioned when we started investigating Zimbra as an Exchange replacement. For us to have been able to convince upper management to allow the change - it was based on the technology at that time. We expected upgrades and changes, but this looks like an overhaul of strategy and functionality. Maybe it will be greater than sliced bread for most, but now we either have to install planned EOL software - or we have to use something drastically different from what we were sold.

    Thanks,

    John
    No it does NOT make sense to migrate anyone off of outlook. Believe me that won't be a fun process even when ZD was up to date against the server. What I mean by that is that if you did that now you'll notice that the server experience is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from the ZD experience. ZD is staying with all of the 7.x features and gui and zimbra server 8 is a greatly improved and new beast in the gui department.

    Zimlets are useful to develop if your company has the money and time to develop them. Zimbra hasn't yet become mainstream enough to foster a community that actually maintains these things. They're the Equivalent of outlook add-ins but the upside is they can be used from the server level. The concept was to allow these to run on the desktop client as well but I don't think that's worth worrying about anymore.

    Yes the outlook connector will be supported to my knowledge. And it better be supported or they're losing a whole bunch of customers.

    This last bit is my BIGGEST problem with VMware Zimbra. Serious hand and foot disease. The salesmen and techs have no idea what the roadmap is for the product, and VMware doesn't seem to want people to know. This lack of communication is maddening because it's one of the only things that keeps me on the fence about the product. Zimbra as a server has been spectacular compared to exchange. However the desktop product has always been quirky and troublesome. I'm in a way glad they're doing an EOL on ZD, it was a patch-work product they never really gave a fair amount of attention to anyway. But I'm still waiting for that seamless desktop->webserver experience.

  10. #20
    marcusg is offline Intermediate Member
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    Default ZD is EOL ok? So what now for users wanting a seamless experience?

    I'm actually glad you're ending the ZD product. After the collapse of prism etc it doesn't surprise me. The only issue is I have no idea what you're planning to do to replace the features it provided.

    So the big feature in the eyes of VMware was that ZD offered offline access to e-mail. This was nice but I don't see it as a problem the majority of your customers are going to be concerned about. Offline e-mail is all but a thing of the past, in our little network we may have a total of 4 or 5 users who've EVER used that feature and it was probably only a handful of times. Plane or vacation cabin. And even then it was of cursory value. Meaning no one would have been yelled at if it wasn't available.

    More important to us is a seamless experience. We want desktop users to think of Zimbra as a full mail client, not just a webmail client. That said there are some projects that kindof competed with ZD in that department that are now all completely abandoned. For instance the Zimbra Toaster.

    As opposed to the Offline experience a great deal of our users rely on toaster-like pop ups to notify them of new mail. Many don't have speakers or if they do, they prefer the toaster or pop up to an audible alert. And that's not enough because with browser tabbing it's complicated to get back into the mail client in some browsers.

    We've done a little testing here to see if there's a way around that and chrome's "Create application shortcut" feature is greatly helpful but not there. I was hoping that VMware could revive the toaster product and add in the ability to install a zimbra shortcut that would open it in a separate default browser instance and give it an icon and the whole shebang. With the exception of the offline capability this would be something we could certainly live with and would definitively be a step up really.

    Another thing you need to consider in pushing ZD EOL is a more realistic minimum requirement list for servers. Since all of that searching and basic mail activity will now go to a server in addition to all of the other things it has to do some of your larger customers or medium edging large might be interested in a more intuitive install that supports multiple servers because they're going to need them if they move everyone off of the desktop client.

    This is, of course, all assuming that those customers want a seamless Zimbra experience. I suspect many do. I don't want to have to re-train users when they use webmail because they've been living in an outlook world and on a snow day or vacation, when they really need the seamless experience they spend 2 hours with a tech trying to figure out how to do simple things they can do very quickly in outlook. As a developer you may forget how blockheaded some people can be when it comes to tech. We have to work with users that have never used a computer, much less e-mail, from time to time and being able to provide some regularity in their e-mail experience would be greatly appreciated.

    So here are your options:
    -Give us the zimbra toaster and build in the ability to save the zimbra webclient as a desktop shortcut. Comprehensive calling as well. When you click a notification it needs to open the right window.
    -Create a webapp skin that mirrors outlook.

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