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Thread: Yahoo selling Zimbra news?

  1. #31
    ab5602 is offline Project Contributor
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    Agree that Zimbra will be safer and a better company underneath VMWare. Much less worry about short-sighted shareholders and looming Microsoft acquisitions. This news also made me smile.

  2. #32
    Mike Scholes is offline Advanced Member
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    I also hope this will effect pricing and get some smaller bundle deals so Zimbra can appeal to the smaller company.

  3. #33
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    @Mike Scholes
    Are you talking about < 15 lisences ?

    Raj
    i2k2 Networks
    Dedicated & Shared Zimbra Hosting Provider

  4. #34
    Mike Scholes is offline Advanced Member
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    I look after companies that have as low as 5 users yet still need collaboration requirements. Would be nice to have something to sell them other than Exchange

  5. #35
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    Just for the sake of argument
    Deploying 5 user exchange requires $800 OS on top of everything + extra for AS/AV plugin?

    even if user buys 15 user starter version of zimbra it will be more cost effective. i know 10 user extra may sound like waste to them but i you do $ to $ comparison of deploying 5-15 user Exchange vs Zimbra starter edition it will be cheaper.
    from zimbra site buy online click...
    Qty Item Price
    15 Zimbra Network - Starter Edition, ZCS-PE-15 399.00
    (1 year software only subscription, NO Zimbra Support, 15 Pro mailboxes)


    Total (in USD) 399.00

    may be some day i call MS..we are MS Servcie Provider Partners and we get different rates than retail Small Business so i cannot compare correctly

    Raj
    i2k2 Networks
    Dedicated & Shared Zimbra Hosting Provider

  6. #36
    Mike Scholes is offline Advanced Member
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    Small Business Server 2003 costs about £220 or $350 for a five user license but the key to this is you're going to get at least 5 years out of SBS. It also offers a lot more than just Exchange. I have a company "happy" running SBS 2003 after 7 years. When you start multiplying Zimbra's yearly costs it's far more expensive. You have to look at Microsofts most expensive pricing options to make a comparison. The small companies I deal with just go out and buy SBS without the subscription. Sure you have AV and spam to consider but it still don't add up. Zimbra starter edition will cost $2000 over five years. Looking at the Zimbra web site it's only the professional edition that supports Outlook. Don't get me wrong, I can't stand Microsoft and I use and love Zimbra, but the market knows MS Exchange, and Outlook (for the time being) is industry standard. We need a pricing policy that starts at 5 users and an option to buy Zimbra outright and make it the customers choice to buy support/updates etc. My customers really don't like the idea of being forced into a subscription. The customer just sees the fact that if they don't pay up each year then Outlook stops working. It's a hard sell. For me It's all about the small customer, it's all about the small customers limited knowledge My competitor goes in and says £220 and it'll last years, I say 5 years is going to cost you £1250. They just say how much? Every year? And run to the nearest SBS stockist.

  7. #37
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    I would be looking at the total cost of owership not just the cost of acquisition, there is maintence to consider in this senario too.

    There is no way you can put SBS 2003 + Exchange in a corner for 5 years and not touch it, but I can attest that you can put linux + zimbra in a corner and have very little to do.

    You will spend more on maintence then the entire cost of buying Zimbra over 5 years.

    Any decent end point AV/Spam package for windows will also cost you a fair amount over 5 years, as will some thing like Acronis Advanced server to do your univeral restore, deployment images. Also then how are you backing up your mail store offsite? Most will be doing this with tapes, so you need to buy something like Backup exec as well.

  8. #38
    Mike Scholes is offline Advanced Member
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    I agree with the above comments but playing devils advocate here, Mr Microsoft Salesperson (MSS) is going to be saying "SBS is a server, it'll sit in the corner with no problems, if, and only if, it goes wrong we'll fix it and charge you". Zimbra Salesperson (ZS) says "Zimbra is far more reliable and needs much less maintenance but you have to pay every year whether it goes wrong or not". MSS says "your desktop antivirus and spam checker is enough, and you can get that for free is you haven't got it already". If I were an MSS I could easily hammer away at the fact that you should only pay when something goes wrong and not when it's running fine.

    Now I know Zimbra/Linux is far more reliable. Having said that it's Outlook that causes most of the problems, not Exchange, so there would be problems with an Outlook/Zimbra installation. Anyway the MD at your local small company may not know that, they listen to IT consultants and have to take their word for it. And how can they know who's right or wrong? At the end of the day you can't argue with the cash figures and the ZS is going to be putting a bigger financial commitment on the table.

    You also can't sync your mobile to it and this is becoming a very popular request. I have a Zimbra server at home for my small business but if I want to sync my iPhone I'd have to buy a 25 user license, and renew it every year even though the server never goes wrong and I don't want to upgrade as it does what I want it to do. I would be happy to pay a one off fee for a five user license but only Microsoft gives me that option.

    I would challenge anybody to say for a small 5 user company that want to sync their mobile phones that the TCO is cheaper with Zimbra than SBS.

    There's loads on these forums with the same argument and Zimbra have gone some way with the starter edition but it needs to be a bit more flexible and look after the small company.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Scholes View Post
    I agree with the above comments but playing devils advocate here, Mr Microsoft Salesperson (MSS) is going to be saying "SBS is a server, it'll sit in the corner with no problems, if, and only if, it goes wrong we'll fix it and charge you". Zimbra Salesperson (ZS) says "Zimbra is far more reliable and needs much less maintenance but you have to pay every year whether it goes wrong or not". MSS says "your desktop antivirus and spam checker is enough, and you can get that for free is you haven't got it already". If I were an MSS I could easily hammer away at the fact that you should only pay when something goes wrong and not when it's running fine.

    Now I know Zimbra/Linux is far more reliable. Having said that it's Outlook that causes most of the problems, not Exchange, so there would be problems with an Outlook/Zimbra installation. Anyway the MD at your local small company may not know that, they listen to IT consultants and have to take their word for it. And how can they know who's right or wrong? At the end of the day you can't argue with the cash figures and the ZS is going to be putting a bigger financial commitment on the table.

    You also can't sync your mobile to it and this is becoming a very popular request. I have a Zimbra server at home for my small business but if I want to sync my iPhone I'd have to buy a 25 user license, and renew it every year even though the server never goes wrong and I don't want to upgrade as it does what I want it to do. I would be happy to pay a one off fee for a five user license but only Microsoft gives me that option.

    I would challenge anybody to say for a small 5 user company that want to sync their mobile phones that the TCO is cheaper with Zimbra than SBS.

    There's loads on these forums with the same argument and Zimbra have gone some way with the starter edition but it needs to be a bit more flexible and look after the small company.
    Mike,

    Full Disclosure: We are a Zimbra Hosting Partner serving companies with global operations. Zimbra is part of our suite of managed services provider offerings. We also support a number of SBS servers at some of our smaller clients and full-blown Exchange servers at some of our larger managed services clients.

    In our experience, it is the very rare client with less than 25 employees who should be running their own premises-based email/groupware solution in the first instance. A hosted email solution of any stripe (Zimbra, Exchange, GMail, etc.) will in almost all cases be less expensive and have higher availabilities than a small premises-based solution.

    Sure, SBS 2008 is a darn good product (we really love the daily emailed reports!), but just because you get Exchange "for free" with SBS doesn't mean you should use it.

    In the first instance, running Exchange increases the server hardware requirements, which adds cost. Second, to ensure email can actually arrive at the SBS box 24 x 7 x 365 the client needs to have good power and Internet connectivity, which also adds capital expense and recurring costs.

    And, as much improved as Exchange 2007/2010 are over previous versions, Exchange itself still requires attention and maintenance, again, adding costs.

    We therefore see very much eye-to-eye with Zimbra that companies requiring less than 25 licenses should deal with a Zimbra Hosting Provider in most cases. And if email is so critical to a smaller company, or they have unusual requirements that a premises-based solution is indeed required, then the extra cost from having to buy the minimal number of Zimbra licenses will be but a fractional percentage of the total premises-based email system costs.

    It's also I think worth considering that Zimbra -- as great a tool set as it truly is -- isn't for everyone. It's dangerous to fall in love with your tools...

    We often tell clients that it's hard to pull out old nails using a ball peen hammer, so as good a hammer as you may have, it can't do everything other hammers can do.

    Our strategy with clients is to get everyone to agree to "What's the job? What's the strategy?" and then if Zimbra is the right tool for the job, great. But if not, that's OK too (there are other tools we can use).

    Hope that helps,
    Mark

  10. #40
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    I'm interested in what will happen to the licensing as in YPL etc.
    It'll be nice to have the Yahoo! stuff stripped out, but what will replace it I wonder?

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