MS offering to buy Yahoo ???

[meltingrobot]

News Corp Talking To Microsoft About Joining Yahoo Bid

Just read that too.... might be time to delete my myspace account soon....

[p24t]

Originally Posted by meltingrobot

News Corp Talking To Microsoft About Joining Yahoo Bid

Just read that too.... might be time to delete my myspace account soon....

NewsCorp + MS... I'd say that I'd actually have to burn my server but I think it would just spontaneously combust out of sheer horror.

[Thiago Camargo Martins]

Zimbra Community, we know what must be done, put Zimbra under GPL2 license.

> please zimbra remove the attribution clauses from the opensource version. please. please. please!!!!
YES!! PLEEEEEASE!!! Right NOW!!

If we need a fork, what is the version that we can do this fork of Zimbra?
If I want, Can I do a fork of entire Zimbra open source edition right now?

[raj]

>If we need a fork, what is the version that we can do this fork of Zimbra?
Any version..make sense to do on 5.0

>If I want, Can I do a fork of entire Zimbra open source edition right now?
Yes..as long as you comply to the YPL included in zimbra..ie show zimbra logo

Raj

[lschweiss]

I just found Zimbra while Googling to find a solution to upgrade some of my clients from Samsung Contact. I was ready to give Zimbra a try until I realized it was a Yahoo company.

Not long ago this would have made me more secure about investing in Zimbra, however with the threat of MS overhead, this project is doomed.

If you think MS will keep Zimbra around in any form you are kidding yourself. HP had a rather successful product called OpenMail that they discontinued simply because Microsoft threatened to raise their costs on their desktop PCs if they kept selling OpenMail.

I could see Microsoft even going so far as to threaten trademark lawsuits against any fork of Zimbra open source for using the Zimbra name that they would have acquired.

Simply put if MS acquires Yahoo, they will kill Zimbra. The only thing that can keep the project alive is if Zimbra changes the open source license to GPL before the acquisition. The paid versions are completely doomed.

Microsoft will take over Yahoo, they see it as their only hope to compete against Google. It's only a matter of time afterwards that someone in MS pulls the trigger on Zimbra.

I'll be watching what happens with Zimbra in the coming months, hopefully something will be done to either separate it from the takeover or legally protect it from Microsoft. If Zimbra is lucky the FTC will force MS to sell it off.

The day MS closes the takeover of Yahoo will be another sad day proving the DOJ settlement with MS was useless.

[greenrenault]

The continued silence from Zimbra is not re-assuring. Especially considering the Zimbra track record to be very open, responsive and forth-coming about issues affecting the community and customer-base.

All I want is statement from Zimbra which will ensure the longevity of the product and community.

[Trev_Thorpe]

Originally Posted by greenrenault

All I want is statement from Zimbra which will ensure the longevity of the product and community.

Yea, but that statement probably has to come from the new parent company to carry any validity.

[p24t]

Originally Posted by lschweiss

I could see Microsoft even going so far as to threaten trademark lawsuits against any fork of Zimbra open source for using the Zimbra name that they would have acquired.

From the YPL:

3.3 - This license does not grant You rights to use any party's name, logo, or trademarks,
except solely as necessary to comply with Section 3.2.

MS couldn't change the license if they wanted to. Now that the software has been released under this license, anyone who would modify the software would have the rights to use the logos/branding necessary to comply with the license.

[gmturner]

IANAL but I like to play one in web forums. Here is a possible work-around to Zimbra's badgeware problem.

Quoting the YPL, section 1.1:

Subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement, Yahoo! hereby grants to You, ... a royalty-free ... license to copy, modify, compile, execute, and distribute the Software and Modifications.

But,

1.5 - This Agreement does not limit Your right to distribute files that are entirely Your own work (i.e., which do not incorporate any portion of the Software and are not Modifications) under any terms You choose.

and finally, with my emphasis, here is the badgeware clause from the YPL, which limits the right to redistribute and use the software granted in clause 1.1:

3.2 - In any copy of the Software or in any Modification you create, You must retain and reproduce, any and all copyright, patent, trademark, and attribution notices that are included in the Software in the same form as they appear in the Software. This includes the preservation of attribution notices in the form of trademarks or logos that exist within a user interface of the Software.

The "logos" restriction applies only to "any copy/modification of the software." Notably absent is any limitation on what can be done with the (html/css/etc) output of the software.

I fail to see how this license could stop "You" from creating an unbadgifying robot:

[web client] <====> [unbadgifier] <====> [Zimbra]

For example, the unbadgifier could consist of just apache+mod_proxy+mod_filter and "code" to replace text in /zimbra/css/images or wherever the stupid badges are produced.

So long as the debadgifier and Zimbra are completely separate software programs, I fail to see how the YPL can stop "You" from stripping out the badges on "Your" own time (or that of Your robot slaves).

In other words, it seems to me that:

• 1.1 Gives "You" the right to compile/modify/run zimbra,
• 3.2 Limits that right to require that badges remain intact, but only within the YPL code itself.

In case that was too subtle,

• 1.5, 3.1, and, to a lesser extent, 1.1 and 7 clarify that no implicit obligations apply to non-YPL code.

Am I crazy, or does this not provide a crude, inelegant, lawyerly and wasteful -- but totally legal and effective -- means to work around the problem and strip badges from a Zimbra fork?

Admittedly such a thing would represent a horrible perversion of any sort of reasonable principle of engineering, and should be avoided at all costs. But the possibility of doing it might be enough to serve as an insurance policy against any future project owner from attempting to kill Zimbra off by simply neglecting it.

Eventually a fork could even work its way out of the mess by replacing any badgeware-encumbered code. In the meanwhile, this kludge could at least enable a quick-and-dirty fork to be created if need be.

Just a thought...

-gmt

[batfastad]

I'm no expert on these matters, but from what you've said gmturner that seems perfectly within the license.
Even though it's a bit of a kludge, but I'd rather have a kludge than run Exchange

I keep checking this thread every week to see if there's anything further on this.
Please Zimbra, just give me some news
I don't want to see the best competitor to Exchange just get crushed

Even if this buyout does go ahead, I can see it taking over a year to go through fully. And even longer for MS to sort through all of Yahoo's stuff and decide what to do with it all.
I've been wanting to deploy Zimbra for over a year now, but just can't justify the risk at the moment. I guess it gives time for all the Zimbra competitors (Kolab etc) to come up with decent alternatives. But I want Zimbra!