MS offering to buy Yahoo ???

[alessio]

Hi All
Is there is only one possibility for Zimbra (ZCS) to survive to m$ acquisition of yahoo.
GPL v3.
All features (except Outlook connector and other based on closed source sw) should'be released under GPL v3 licence.


Ciao
Alessio

[meltingrobot]

Yeah, I will have to second that spamming is bad! Besides, mass mailing everybody you know when most people don't even know what Zimbra is, is kinda pointless. No, I think complaining on the forums is a much better solution. Only people that work at Zimbra and Zimbra customers will read the forums, and that's the only people this should matter to. But anyways, it would be really nice to hear if the Zimbra people have a contingency plan in place for when the MS buyout happens. I seriously don't think it's a matter of if anymore.

Microsoft Sets Deadline for Yahoo to Make Deal - New York Times

[dijichi2]

Yahoo says it's willing to bend over for Bill but wants more money to go all the way.

Yahoo tells Microsoft to increase $41B bid - CNN.com

[rusty]

dijichi2:

Thanks for your feedback, however I disagree for two reasons.

A. Chain mail traditionally refers to those useless emails that say if you don't forward it, something bad will happen. Here, every recipient is almost certainly someone who will benefit if Microsoft is not permitted to buy Yahoo.

B. Being timid, or adhering strictly to etiquette, will not save Zimbra. There won't be a second chance to get serious later. The general public needs to get involved.

As for your PS comment, I tried to make it easy for the general public to grasp. If you have alternative language, I'm listening. I've been working hard on this cause, and can't agonize over every sentence. Also, you can volunteer to do more at FreeZimbraNow.org.

[dkarp]

Taking off my Zimbra employee hat for a moment...

Spamming is bad. Even if you call it something other than "spamming". Don't do it.

[dwmtractor]

I thought about making this a PM to Rusty, but I think we need to be open here. Rusty, you have every right to make your points on this forum like anyone else, and you'll notice that neither Zimbra employees nor we moderators have interfered. However, when you use the Zimbra forums to advocate sending ANYTHING to everyone you know, you are violating both netiquette and forum rules. I'm going to moderate that post, NOT to censor your opinions, but to preserve the integrity of the Zimbra forum.

Just to be perfectly clear here: Everyone has the right to post their opinions on this forum. However, advocating unethical or inappropriate email behavior is not acceptable on the forum of a reputable mail program.

Now removing my moderator's hat and speaking my personal opinion: As of this afternoon you have 13 replies to your "online petition" thread and a total of 35 posts on your whole forum since you started it two months ago. Far from lack of knowledge (thousands have read this thread alone on the Zimbra forum), I believe this evidences lack of interest on the part of those who know, to sign online petitions.

In a business like this, it's money that talks, not the opinion of a bunch of open-source users like you and me. If Warren Buffett wants to buy Zimbra and make it open source, he can offer enough $$$ to do so. But an online petition, even if it has thousands of signatures, won't accomplish the job. Basically, what costs nothing is worth just about that much when it comes to influencing a business decision.

Now I'll climb down off my soapbox. . .

[dijichi2]

A. Chain mail traditionally refers to those useless emails that say if you don't forward it, something bad will happen. Here, every recipient is almost certainly someone who will benefit if Microsoft is not permitted to buy Yahoo.

B. Being timid, or adhering strictly to etiquette, will not save Zimbra. There won't be a second chance to get serious later. The general public needs to get involved.

Hi Rusty

I understand your point of thinking, and greatly respect your passion about this issue. However, whether they will benefit or not, the vast majority of people who would read what you were advocating won't have the foggiest idea what you're talking about, and spamming will only serve to blacken the name of Zimbra and be ultimately counterproductive.

Unfortunately at this time getting the general public involved in a grassroots rebellion will accomplish little - at this point of a public hostile takeover I would have thought Yahoo has a fiduciary duty to its shareholders not to throw it's assets out of the aeroplane door, so to speak. Doing something as major as opensourcing Zimbra would require board approval, and given that it is a small but very strategically important piece to Microsoft I just can't see this happening, not unless it is done to deliberately offrail the takeover and there would be shareholder revolt should this be done and legal consequences.

In a business like this, it's money that talks, not the opinion of a bunch of open-source users like you and me. If Warren Buffett wants to buy Zimbra and make it open source, he can offer enough $$$ to do so. But an online petition, even if it has thousands of signatures, won't accomplish the job. Basically, what costs nothing is worth just about that much when it comes to influencing a business decision.

Generally I agree with this, but I strongly disagree with the last sentence. The value of an internet/community/opensource product, which Zimbra partially claims to be, is to various degrees tied to the strength of it's online community and users. In particular with Zimbra, as there is so much overlap with the community and commercial products and clientbase, shouting very loudly that paying customers will jump ship if Microsoft takes over, which costs nothing to do, would in most situations be a very powerful disuading argument.

Unfortunately, in this case, the predator company will almost certainly have no interest in this vocal outburst when they likely just want to kill the product.

Lots of people - including me - were outraged and very pessimistic for the future of Zimbra when Microsoft came onto the scene - it made the sale to Yahoo for such a small sum look like a disastrous decision. For sure the future still looks uncertain but I have a feeling that one way or another, Zimbra will come out the other end even stronger. I think that either regulatory issues or the Zimbra team will ensure that Zimbra lives on in one form or another. I still pay for my commercial licenses, and I am still working on contributing to the community source code.

[rusty]

A few people are talking about SPAM. I don't remember advocating SPAM. Saying I did only serves to confuse people and weaken the effort.

SPAM is sending unsolicited email where there is no pre-existing relationship with the recipient. In other words, if you know the recipient, then it isn't SPAM. So when friends send people in their address book a joke, it is not spam. If you send your customers an email it is not spam. If I obtain a list of email addresses for people I don't know and send them email, it is spam.

If you want to help with the cause, use your head and your conscience. If you aren't sure something is proper, talk about it in the forum. Not everyone will agree, but there are smart people here and will get good advice.

If you have comments, please be constructive. Saying something is stupid or labeling it as spam is not helpful. Re-writing the passage to something you think is better is helpful. Maybe someone else will re-write your comment, but in the end, we can work together to get it right.

Even the goal is up for debate. I think the goal is to get lots of signatures on the petition (thousands) and at the right time it will get sent to the powers in charge of deciding if Microsoft should be allowed to purchase Yahoo. I think the general public should be involved. This is bigger than Zimbra alone, it is Microsoft vs. open source. It is Windows vs. Linux. It is Zimbra vs. Exchange. The public has a vested interest in this and it would be wrong not to include them.

Steve Ballmer is fighting with gloves off. What makes him entitled to own the world? I for one am not going to take this lying down. I hope I have friends here that feel the same way.

Check out the picture of Ballmer at FreeZimbraNow.org, then hold your chin up so he can get a good shot at it.

I don't see any difference between that and being resigned to the fact MS will win. They might win, but if they do, I'm going down swinging. Come on! Get excited about this. I mean, what's the problem? Fear of success?

[p24t]

Okay, Yahoo wants more money. If M$ was serious enough about this deal, they'd pony up the cash. If they have it, that is.

This was a 50/50 cash/stock deal. That means that M$ had $22b to front for the deal. The rest was stock, which has devalued since the deal was first offered. Now why a half/half deal? (this may have been discussed in this thread, or elsewhere) I've heard that Microsoft may not have any more cash on hand. They've done a lot recently. They've settled lawsuits, bought companies. They've even been fined a very large sum in the EU. They might not be able, or willing to buy Yahoo.

So then, Yahoo once again Yahoo!'s Board of Directors Responds to Latest Microsoft Letter told Ballmer to shove it, unless they've got more to offer.

So this has been a very big deal. It's in the news, all over the net, etc. If M$ wants Yahoo, then they need to make the deal. If they don't want it, then they can drag this on for as long as they need.

Who is the winner? Exchange. Microsoft's "advanced mail server software." How? By hurting Zimbra's business.

Originally Posted by Mike Scholes

That would indeed explain a lot, it's something I have been discussing with a colleague. I'll be going with FOSS for now and if things pan out like we all hope upgrade to NE later.

As much as MS needs the web presence (has anyone ever actually used msn.com?) one would think they would want to close this deal and get it over with. The only thing that prolonging it does is hurt Yahoo and Zimbra.

Originally Posted by tgx

PC World - Yahoo Says Microsoft Takeover Bid is a Distraction

When MS makes up their mind to do something, they do it. They may fail miserably but they do it. The question here is: What are they trying to do?

(can anyone say SCO vs. Linux?)

[rusty]

Hi dijichi2,

I wanted to respond to the line that Microsoft won't care about the petition. I agree, however, it isn't Microsoft or Yahoo who will be approving this merger. Even if Yahoo accepts Microsoft's offer, it makes no difference. This merger is anti-competitive and Microsoft has already been found to be a monopolist in the desktop OS. They may have a monopoly in the Exchange Server area, or at least an extremely dominant position.

Unlike the board game, Monopoly is a bad thing. A monopoly is when a company is so successful and becomes so dominant, that the competition no longer has a chance. Think of it as capitalism out of control. It is the government's function to fix that and restore healthy competition.

Remember Esso (now Exxon) was broken up? AT&T was broken up, and all the baby bells were spun off. It is not hopeless. Here we aren't even talking about a breakup which is very difficult to oversee, we are talking about not permitting a merger, much simpler. Microsoft getting Zimbra would be extremely anti-competitive. I think the chances we will win are quite good. The only fear I have is do people understand what Exchange Server and Zimbra are? Since we are the experts, it is up to us to get the word out.

And Yahoo and Zimbra together are a stronger competitor to Exchange than Zimbra as a stand-alone company. So while it is possible the government can force Yahoo to spin off Zimbra before the merger is consummated, even that would be anti-competitive and would be a partial win for Microsoft. The Yahoo-Microsoft deal can not be allowed to go through.

We will win. Am I willing to sit back and trust this will go perfectly? No. That is why the time to make some noise is now!

Originally Posted by dijichi2

Hi Rusty

I understand your point of thinking, and greatly respect your passion about this issue. However, whether they will benefit or not, the vast majority of people who would read what you were advocating won't have the foggiest idea what you're talking about, and spamming will only serve to blacken the name of Zimbra and be ultimately counterproductive.

Unfortunately at this time getting the general public involved in a grassroots rebellion will accomplish little - at this point of a public hostile takeover I would have thought Yahoo has a fiduciary duty to its shareholders not to throw it's assets out of the aeroplane door, so to speak. Doing something as major as opensourcing Zimbra would require board approval, and given that it is a small but very strategically important piece to Microsoft I just can't see this happening, not unless it is done to deliberately offrail the takeover and there would be shareholder revolt should this be done and legal consequences.



Generally I agree with this, but I strongly disagree with the last sentence. The value of an internet/community/opensource product, which Zimbra partially claims to be, is to various degrees tied to the strength of it's online community and users. In particular with Zimbra, as there is so much overlap with the community and commercial products and clientbase, shouting very loudly that paying customers will jump ship if Microsoft takes over, which costs nothing to do, would in most situations be a very powerful disuading argument.

Unfortunately, in this case, the predator company will almost certainly have no interest in this vocal outburst when they likely just want to kill the product.

Lots of people - including me - were outraged and very pessimistic for the future of Zimbra when Microsoft came onto the scene - it made the sale to Yahoo for such a small sum look like a disastrous decision. For sure the future still looks uncertain but I have a feeling that one way or another, Zimbra will come out the other end even stronger. I think that either regulatory issues or the Zimbra team will ensure that Zimbra lives on in one form or another. I still pay for my commercial licenses, and I am still working on contributing to the community source code.