MS offering to buy Yahoo ???

[LMStone]

Originally Posted by bigmudcake

Do you also disclose that all Linux distros are under a patent threat from Microsoft, that way, you can kill off the potential clients alot better.

Actually, we do disclose Microsoft's threats to our clients and prospects. And we use Novell/SuSE Linux Enterprise Server on our own and our clients' servers.

Originally Posted by bigmudcake

You will be waiting quite a while I think

That may very well be, though eventually a client needing to replace an old groupware system will have no choice but to do so, and we will work with them to benchmark the benefits and risks of each platform, and then deploy and maintain that chosen system for them, whether it's Zimbra, Exchange, Horde or whatever.

But, when there is differing legal and/or business risk between platforms, it is not our place to make that platform decision for our clients. That's a business, not a technology, decision. Our job is to help the client better understand the trade offs between the choices (and we do suggest our clients contact attorneys on a number of these choices periodically), so the client can make as informed, rational decision as possible.

All the best,
Mark

[meltingrobot]

All I can say is that as an admin that is running NE, I am seriously keeping an eye out on the MS/Yahoo situation. I am also looking at alternatives already just to be prepared. If this situation has taught me anything, it's that not all open source licenses are created equal. I won't make the mistake again of recommending a product that isn't fully GPL. Not to mention, I won't recommend paying for a product that is partially closed source.

[nrc]

Originally Posted by dijichi2

1) Opensource and NE version license states logo/attribution is mandatory for use/development.
2) Whoever owns the logo/trademark is within his/her right to stop use of it (think Redhat and CentOS).

Apples and oranges. RedHat very explicitly denies the right to redistribute anything with their trademarks on it. The Zimbra license grants the right to use their trademark for the purpose of fulfilling their branding requirements. It makes no allowance for revoking that right through any means.

[batfastad]

I like everyone else here am just hoping that Zimbra can continue.
The silence on this matter is unbearable!

Like many, I have not implemented Zimbra yet. I have been monitoring it for a couple of years now, and gradually watching the new features stack up and up against, and overtake those of M$ Exchange / Outlook.

There's no doubt about it, this is the best groupware solution out there.

I was at the point where I was waiting to buy new hardware to get Zimbra up and running and get a few users migrated.
Now though it seems I'll have to wait and sit it out.

Unfortunately the features that made Zimbra a definite target for us, are all in the NE edition.

I'll be devastated to see all this hard work, and the best product out there, completely disappear.
But with this badgeware license issue I can't see any light at the end of this tunnel

[dwmtractor]

There are plenty of reasonable concerns over this merger, but I really don't think the badge--although it has gotten LOTS of focus here--is one of them.

I came across this on the net several weeks ago and can't find the site, but there is apparently an old legal doctrine--I believe it's actually common law but it goes WAY back--that the writer of this other post said might apply in badgeware cases. I can't remember the exact Latin phrase, but the essential meat of it was "One cannot prohibit what he has elsewhere required." It's one of those provisions that, like the Magna Carta itself, force even rulers to be under the law.

In our case, this means that since we are bound by a legal contract (the Zimbra and now Yahoo public licenses) to display the Zimbra logo, Microsoft or Zimbra or Yahoo themselves cannot suddenly say "Oops, now you are no longer allowed to use our logo" and thereby prohibit us from fulfilling a contract into which we entered legally and in good faith.

Microsoft (or Yahoo!, for that matter) could stop development of the Zimbra product. They could refuse to release those parts of the software that they own, that are not under any public license. They could fire the whole Zimbra team lock, stock, and barrel. But what they can NEVER do is simply yank the rug from under the whole shootin' match by putting the clamps on their logo.

As I said at the beginning, there are plenty of REASONABLE causes for concern in all this, and I'm no happier than some of the rest of you that there has been so little information from those that know. Unfortunately, when lawyers and non-disclosure agreements and corporate confidentiality and bureaucracy get in the way, the flow of information to us, the masses, tends to suffer. C'est la vie.

Now time for the requisite disclaimer:

I am neither a Zimbra/Yahoo/Microsoft employee nor an attorney. I am speaking entirely on my own behalf and at no one's prompting. I am doing my best to relate a legal statement I read somewhere, as a layman who could have it all wrong.

But I still think you all should lighten up on the badgeware issue--there are potential problems, but this ain't it!

Cheers,

Dan

[tgx]

In any case, MS' overtures seem to be distracting Yahoo!
Shareholder lawsuits etc are emerging. I wish Zimbra would have stayed
independant. Never liked the deal from day 1. Now if RedHat or some
other Linux server provider would have bought them the game would be a lot different. Woulda coulda shoulda I guess.

PC World - Yahoo Says Microsoft Takeover Bid is a Distraction

[dijichi2]

But I still think you all should lighten up on the badgeware issue--there are potential problems, but this ain't it!

Actually, is it is the *entire* issue. With respect, millions of people who use Zimbra, both NE and OSS, aren't going to rest easy because you once heard something somewhere, maybe, perhaps, kinda. The future of Zimbra, once it is swallowed/killed by M$, rests in the continuation of the opensource codebase and the license is the key to whether or not this is possible.

[dkarp]

Originally Posted by dwmtractor

I came across this on the net several weeks ago and can't find the site, but there is apparently an old legal doctrine--I believe it's actually common law but it goes WAY back--that the writer of this other post said might apply in badgeware cases. I can't remember the exact Latin phrase, but the essential meat of it was "One cannot prohibit what he has elsewhere required." It's one of those provisions that, like the Magna Carta itself, force even rulers to be under the law.

Groklaw - What Will Happen to Zimbra?

[LMStone]

I just today took a fresh look at the Network Edition license to see if, as a lay person, I could find any protections from Microsoft wanting to turn off Zimbra after the acquisition.

What I found (again, I am not a lawyer...) leads me to conclude unfortunately that Microsoft could turn off all Network Edition customers the day Microsoft closes on the acquisition of Yahoo.

Would be nice if someone from Zimbra could opine here otherwise...

Here's the thought process:

First, the NE license can be found at http://files.zimbra.com/website/docs...network_la.pdf.

I was originally focused on Section 9. (Termination), and thought we would be in the clear. But, then I reread the whole license and came across the last sentence of Section 6. (Indemnification):

"In addition, in the event Zimbra determines that any Product may become subject to a third party claim of intellectual property infringement, Zimbra may, in its sole discretion and as Licensee’s sole remedy, modify or replace or terminate the license with respect to that Product, provided that if the license is terminated without a replacement, Zimbra will refund to Licensee the applicable pre-paid fees with respect thereto attributable to the remainder of the pre-paid period."

My lay interpretation of that sentence is that Microsoft would need only to make the threat of an IP claim against Zimbra code, not an actual claim, and that would be enough for Microsoft to terminate our NE license right then and there, say, on the afternoon Microsoft closes the deal to acquire Yahoo.

Once again, I am not a lawyer, but someone please help me to understand if I am missing something here that would give us NE license holders any better protection.

All the best,
Mark

[Russianspi]

Can you file a claim of patent infringement against yourselves? If Microsoft owns Zimbra - where's the patent claim?