Page 21 of 38 FirstFirst ... 11192021222331 ... LastLast
Results 201 to 210 of 373

Thread: MS offering to buy Yahoo ???

  1. #201
    rusty is offline Loyal Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    93
    Rep Power
    7

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by nrc View Post
    I don't think the SEC has much to do with the anti-trust issues. The House and Senate appear anxious to hold hearings on the topic and the Justice Department normally rules on the anti-trust issues related to deals like this. The European Union could also play a role especially since they've been watching MS closely.

    But your question is a good one, how do we make sure that Zimbra is a consideration in these proceedings? While we're all very impressed by Zimbra's potential as an Exchange competitor it's still small enough that it could fall in the cracks of a 41 billion dollar deal.
    nrc, thanks for clearing up who the decision makers are. I agree that Zimbra is small enough to fall thru the cracks. The experts on Zimbra are not some other people somewhere, but everyone reading in this forum. After all, where would a Zimbra expert hang out except in a Zimbra forum?

    Decision makers really rely on experts to supply the information they need to make their decisions. There is a forum dedicated to exactly this topic, take a minute to check it out. There are new posts, so if you were already there, take another look:

    FreeZimbraNow - Powered by vBulletin
    Last edited by rusty; 02-15-2008 at 10:08 AM.

  2. #202
    pavera is offline Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    11
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Still no real answers

    This situation has gone on too long, it has been almost a month, and still no official word from anyone inside Zimbra about the status of the software after an MS acquisition.

    It is becoming more and more clear that this acquisition will go through, even though the Yahoo board rejected the offer, Yahoo is now being sued for this rejection. Microsoft has initiated a proxy battle to force the hostile takeover, all indications are that Microsoft will succeed in this bid.

    I am 100% convinced that the agenda for day 1 after the acquisition closes is already written up in Redmond. Item 1 on that agenda is disband Zimbra, lay off all employees, and cease distribution of the software. They will not allow a competitor to exchange to exist.

    Because of the attribution clauses in the license, it is impossible to effectively fork Zimbra. MS will own the Zimbra trademark, which is required to appear in any version of Zimbra (OSS or otherwise), MS will sue anyone for violating their trademark after the acquisition, so it will be illegal to distribute or use Zimbra. If you strip out the trademark, MS will sue you for violating the license. Zimbra has 6 months to live at most. The takeover will be completed at the latest at the June Board Election, in which MS will seat a new board and complete their proxy hostile bid takeover.

    In light of this entirely hostile environment the user community needs some indication of the status of the software and legal agreements between Zimbra and Yahoo. There is absolutely zero evidence that Zimbra will be a viable piece of software in six months. Because of the "Open Source" license chosen by the Zimbra team, even the OSS version is not safe and can be discontinued the day after MS takes over. If I need to migrate my users off of Zimbra, I need to start NOW! TODAY! I use the OSS version, but reading the license gives me zero confidence that this version will be legal or available after MS completes this takeover.

  3. #203
    rcliff is offline Starter Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    2
    Rep Power
    7

    Default Scenarios for Zimbra's survival

    At this point, I think it is safe to assume that Microsoft's acquisition of Yahoo is inevitable. The only question is how long and how ugly the takeover gets. Perhaps this is just wishful thinking, but I would not necessarily jump to the conclusion that this means certain death for Zimbra. I see two scenarios which Zimbra can survive.


    1. MS is forced by regulators to spin off Zimbra as a condition of the acquisition. This scenario would obviously be the best option for Zimbra's long term viability.
    2. MS either decides to or is forced to continue development of Zimbra. MS can take advantage of Zimbra's market and make it a profit center similarly to the Macintosh business unit within Microsoft. In this scenario, I would expect to see an immediate priority Windows server port. The downside here is that over time I would expect that support for non-windows platforms (ie. linux server support, Firefox browsers, blackberries, etc.) could suffer in favor on MS offerings.

    While, the likelihood that MS simply kills Zimbra is strong I would not dismiss the possibilities above.

    If that online petition ever gets completed and has enough response to get noticed, perhaps that could help.

    Let's keep our fingers crossed that the "borg" doesn't have its way with perhaps the best Exchange alternative out there.

    Cliff

  4. #204
    bigmudcake is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Lismore NSW, Australia
    Posts
    60
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    I think quite a few people in this thread need to take a few deep breaths.

    What especially concerns me are a number of people actually "holding off" or looking at inferior alternatives (such as Scalix) due to the MS announcement and the FUD that is being spread in this thread.

    These people need to see a few facts before they make a rash and potentually wrong decision for the email needs of the companies they represent.

    Even in worse case, if MS/Yahoo deal goes through then it would still be at least 2 years before development would cease (thats even if it would cease), allowing for 1 year for the battle to takeover, 6 months for regulatory approval, 6 months for MS to get plans into action.

    Now, given that Zimbra is already years ahead of its competion , you are looking to at least 4 years of useability. And by that stage you would do a review anyway.

    So all those considering using Zimbra now, the MS announcement should not hinder their plans. You should consider Zimbra to be the best collaboration product for at least the next 4 years.

    Also, do the people in this thread really think that the employees of Zimbra would simply walk away from a product their have spend countless hours of dedication on. The fact is, there is nothing to stop the employees or ex employees to continue development of the Open Source version.

    So, its not all gloom and doom.

    Cheers
    bigmucake.
    Last edited by bigmudcake; 02-24-2008 at 05:36 PM.

  5. #205
    dijichi2 is offline OpenSource Builder & Moderator
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,176
    Rep Power
    11

    Default

    unfortunately bigmudcake, I don't think this is the case.

    Also, do the people in this thread really think that the employees of Zimbra would simply walk away from a product their have spend countless hours of dedication on. The fact is, there is nothing to stop the employees or ex employees to continue development of the Open Source version.
    But Zimbra is not licensed under a true opensource license, it's under a badgeware license. The entire frontend, and most of the backend contains license obligations to display prominently, on every page, the Zimbra logo. Microsoft would potentially own this trademark.

    Even in worse case, if MS/Yahoo deal goes through then it would still be at least 2 years before development would cease (thats even if it would cease), allowing for 1 year for the battle to takeover, 6 months for regulatory approval, 6 months for MS to get plans into action.
    And what if Yahoo caves into shareholder/legal pressure and submits to takeover next week? Given that neither company has anywhere vaguely near majority market share in any relevent area, I don't hold out much hope for regulatory approval either taking much time or helping zimbra out.

    Now, given that Zimbra is already years ahead of its competion , you are looking to at least 4 years of useability. And by that stage you would do a review anyway.
    Are you suggesting companies should continue to use 4-year old software which very shortly would be guaranteed to be riddled with security holes?

  6. #206
    rcliff is offline Starter Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    2
    Rep Power
    7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bigmudcake View Post
    Even in worse case, if MS/Yahoo deal goes through then it would still be at least 2 years before development would cease (thats even if it would cease), allowing for 1 year for the battle to takeover, 6 months for regulatory approval, 6 months for MS to get plans into action.

    Now, given that Zimbra is already years ahead of its competion , you are looking to at least 4 years of useability. And by that stage you would do a review anyway.

    So all those considering using Zimbra now, the MS announcement should not hinder their plans. You should consider Zimbra to be the best collaboration product for at least the next 4 years.
    Worse case scenario? This is hardly the worse case. While nothing has happened yet, the MS/Yahoo deal could certainly develop very quickly from here. Worse case is deal is done in 6 months and Microsoft kills all Zimbra development immediately. Even if you have a solid working system at that point, security holes will surface and there will be no one patching them. At that point, all Zimbra admins will be sitting ducks scrambling for a new solution. I for one, would not would not want to be in that situation and certainly disagree that holding off is wrong at this point.

  7. #207
    jsmith is offline Active Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    27
    Rep Power
    7

    Default

    I second that.
    We are not going to invest the time, money, and hardware into a solution that may not exist in a very short time (I realized that I just opened up for arguments about how the money and hardware wouldn't be wasted but I hope everyone will see past the generalization). We would love to move forward with implementing Zimbra! But we are coming from an ISP/POP setup and there will be a fair amount of work for a 2-3 person IT staff (100+ boxes) in server setup, migration, etc., not to mention money.

    There is no way we 'hang our hats on' and sell Zimbra to the powers that be without knowing the short term future of the product. It is an unecessary risk. When there is some formal solid official statements (after March 15th ish ) from Yahoo as to their future or from Zimbra as to their viability after a possible takeover we will make our decision. Until then we continue watching, waiting, and looking at other options.

    Don't get me wrong - We want to deploy Zimbra!

    -Anxiously awaiting better answers-

  8. #208
    LMStone's Avatar
    LMStone is offline Moderator
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    477 Congress Street | Portland, ME 04101
    Posts
    1,373
    Rep Power
    10

    Default

    FWIW we are a taking a "cautious" approach to Microsoft's bid.

    We are continuing with our plan to upgrade our Zimbra servers from 32-bit SuSE ES9 running Zimbra 4.5 to 64-bit SuSE ES10 running Zimbra 5.0.2, and have even made some additional hardware investments to ease that transition.

    But, since we live and die by our reputation, we fully disclose to prospective Zimbra hosting clients the fact that Microsoft has made this unsolicited bid, and, as a former technology mergers and acquisitions investment banker, how I can't really see Zimbra thriving under Microsoft ownership, given that Zimbra is such a terrific alternative to Exchange.

    The net result is that our prospects have delayed making any commitments. None have chosen to upgrade their existing Exchange (or other) infrastructure, and none have signed up yet, either. They are all taking a "wait and see" approach over the next few weeks/months.

    To be fair, if I were in their shoes I would be doing the same thing.

    Are we a little nervous ourselves? Yes, but just a little. Nonetheless, IMHO even if the deal closed tomorrow and Microsoft announced they were killing Zimbra, we believe our NE license would give us almost a year of continued Zimbra use--long enough to migrate to something else.

    Though we are not attorneys, our view is that Microsoft could not unilaterally cancel our NE license (except for breach), without subjecting themselves to a tortious interference claim. And that's good fodder for a class-action suit right there (as well as additional articles by PJ on Groklaw...)

    All of this is a long way of saying that we feel we really have no choice but to hang in there and wait to see how this shakes out. Not a great place to be, but it is what it is...

    With best regards to all,
    Mark

  9. #209
    bigmudcake is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Lismore NSW, Australia
    Posts
    60
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dijichi2 View Post
    But Zimbra is not licensed under a true opensource license, it's under a badgeware license.
    This does not stop employees / ex-employees from still maintaining / improving the code. Or anyone else for that matter. Do you really think the interested parties who have spent years on this great product would just walk away and abandon it when the licence DOES ALLOW them to continue development.


    Quote Originally Posted by dijichi2 View Post
    And what if Yahoo caves into shareholder/legal pressure and submits to takeover next week? I don't hold out much hope for regulatory approval either taking much time or helping zimbra out.
    Even if Yahoo caves in, the wheels still need to turn. You need to appreciate the size and complexity of the deal, plus regulatory approval is not just needed in the USA. Again, this is a massive takover attempt involving alot of international hurdles as well. Plus there are many other interested parties who will slow the deal i.e. Google


    Quote Originally Posted by dijichi2 View Post
    Are you suggesting companies should continue to use 4-year old software which very shortly would be guaranteed to be riddled with security holes?
    Again see earlier comment, "very shortly" is not a term I would use to describe the takeover.

    You again also suggest that if I purchased "now" all development would cease and I would be stuck with "4-year old" software. Again, see my earlier comments, I believe development would still continue for the next 2 years at least, with security maintenance for at least the following 2 years (being an opensource licence). Now as anyone who still uses another 4 year old product "Windows XP" would know, this is nothing to freak out about.

    Plus lets not forget, Zimbra 5 has introduced many advanced features such as CalDAV, mobile support, AJAX integration that is lights years ahead. I hardly believe it is 4 year old software, in 4 years time.

    I think terms like "cave in", "very shortly" and "riddled with security holes" are a little over the top, and only help to spread FUD.

    I think anyone holding off because of the potential MS/Yahoo deal at the expense of the advantages the product holds for their business, is not doing themselves justice, and are not making a decision with all the facts in mind.
    Last edited by bigmudcake; 02-25-2008 at 03:34 PM.

  10. #210
    bigmudcake is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Lismore NSW, Australia
    Posts
    60
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rcliff View Post
    the MS/Yahoo deal could certainly develop very quickly from here.
    Again, this is FUD, take a step back, look how big this deal is, and how many interested parties are involved, including other countries and competitors.

    Quote Originally Posted by rcliff View Post
    Microsoft kills all Zimbra development immediately.
    More FUD, being a big company, do you honestly think MS turns on a dime. Heck it has taken over a year just to release Vista SP1. Look at how long FoxPro database survived after being bought by MS even though it was a direct competitor to Access.

    Quote Originally Posted by rcliff View Post
    security holes will surface and there will be no one patching them
    I for one, because I have access to the code (as everyone does, being opensource) will be patching any security issues found. I believe there will be many interested parties involved, that will enable security maintenence to be done on Zimbra.

    Lets get past this "everyone will abandon the Zimbra product at the drop of a hat" idea.

Page 21 of 38 FirstFirst ... 11192021222331 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. yahoo cant send email to zimbra account.. Why ???
    By bageur in forum Administrators
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 05-08-2008, 04:50 AM
  2. MS's Secret Infatuation
    By mmorse in forum Zimbra Success Stories
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 12-14-2007, 08:52 AM
  3. Firefox Yahoo Notifier
    By tgx in forum Developers
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 11-29-2007, 10:00 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •