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Thread: Zimbra now Yahoo! thoughts

  1. #101
    raj's Avatar
    raj
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    Well on pessimistic side you can think that Zimbra employees will not write OSS code..

    But there are many practical reasons why the wont..

    1)OSS version is a test bed for core NE functionality so it’s a better deal for zimbra dev to TEST and release there code in OSS version.

    2) Zimbra principals (original owners) have been part of many startups and buyout's so I believe they have good intensions for Zimbra as company and open source community

    I will go on a limb here that we as Open Source community needs to step up and start developing core Zimbra functions then only we can demand zimbra employees taking more and more interest in OSS version in the future.
    till now there is not really any great deal of open source community work on core zimbra services like Ajak UI and other integrations Zimbra did by themselves.

    We as Open Source community need to come together or keep our self dependent on zimbra employees to develop for us.

    Raj

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by raj View Post
    Well on pessimistic side you can think that Zimbra employees will not write OSS code..
    Raj
    It's not a question of pessimism. Yahoo! now owns the IP of Zimbra employees. Every thought, every line of code until their contract is up. It isn't a question of whether they want to release OSS code, it's a question of what will Yahoo! allow to be released as OSS. You can bet it won't be the good stuff that would allow someone to build an competing product to Yahoo's offerings. I'm doubtful that you will see any code from former Zimbra employees in the OSS version going forward beyond version 5. Yahoo! has no previous record with OSS so I guess we'll have to wait and see.

  3. #103
    dkarp is offline Zimbra Employee
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgx View Post
    It's not a question of pessimism. Yahoo! now owns the IP of Zimbra employees. Every thought, every line of code until their contract is up. It isn't a question of whether they want to release OSS code, it's a question of what will Yahoo! allow to be released as OSS. You can bet it won't be the good stuff that would allow someone to build an competing product to Yahoo's offerings. I'm doubtful that you will see any code from former Zimbra employees in the OSS version going forward beyond version 5. Yahoo! has no previous record with OSS so I guess we'll have to wait and see.
    That's utterly crazy. First, the functionality isn't sectionable in such a way that the OSS version can remain at 5.0 while the Network version goes forward. Most of the bugfixes and new features for every release have been and will continue to be in the OSS components of the code base.

    I understand the natural fear because we've got New Corporate Overlords. But it'd be extraordinarily bad business to just screw over our existing customers... or our OSS community, from which most of our customers come. You've got Satish on record about the OSS plans -- why not let us screw up in even the tiniest way before being sure that the sky is falling?
    Bugzilla - Wiki - Downloads - Before posting... Search!

  4. #104
    SpEnTBoY is offline Advanced Member
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    Talking Go Yahoo!!!

    Ok I've kept quiet enough for a while ;-) First off I'm not new to this kind of discussion and they almost appear to be carbon copies of one another <insert app here>.

    Before people start slamming Yahoo for the things they _could_ potentially do regarding code release and how they are going to hoop a project in support of a healthier bottom line leaving the OSS crew to wallow in the throngs of their evil tyrany ... has anyone even bothered to look into their strategic plan and track history regarding OSS code?

    Do a search on Yahoo or Google (pick your poison) ... IMO it's not in anyones best interest OR bottom line to whither Zimbra or any other OSS assumed project into oblivion.

    Personally I'm stoked

  5. #105
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    Hello everyone at Zimbra

    Business as Usual
    It's been 24 hours since the world heard ..

    can you get the blog updated from the above to something new..so we know whats really new

    Raj
    i2k2 Systems

  6. #106
    bigmudcake is offline Senior Member
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    Interesting,

    I have already seen 2 unannounced changes to the way Zimbra does business since being bought by Yahoo.

    1. Opensource license has now changed to a "Yahoo Public License" (YPL) - this tells me that they are quietly geering up for model change to how the software is going to be distributed and used in the future.

    2. It appears Zimbra no longer use sourceforge for file hosting and more importantly manage the code in an open fashion using sourceforge SVN. It appears to be all taken in house.

    These 2 quiet changes don't have a good opensource feeling and can only heighten suspicions mentioned in this thread.

    I wonder what future unannounced changes maybe coming for the opensource community ?

  7. #107
    dijichi2 is offline OpenSource Builder & Moderator
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    I've just logged on to post exactly the same thoughts The 'open' svn hasn't worked for many months (6 months+), and their new svn service has never appeared, despite several promises to the contrary. I hope this is genuinely because they haven't had time to fix it rather than more sinister reasons.

    On the plus side the hiring link says they're still looking for lots of people which means the product, in whatever form, isn't going to be killed anytime soon

  8. #108
    gmsmith is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigmudcake View Post
    Interesting,

    I have already seen 2 unannounced changes to the way Zimbra does business since being bought by Yahoo.

    1. Opensource license has now changed to a "Yahoo Public License" (YPL) - this tells me that they are quietly geering up for model change to how the software is going to be distributed and used in the future.

    2. It appears Zimbra no longer use sourceforge for file hosting and more importantly manage the code in an open fashion using sourceforge SVN. It appears to be all taken in house.

    These 2 quiet changes don't have a good opensource feeling and can only heighten suspicions mentioned in this thread.

    I wonder what future unannounced changes maybe coming for the opensource community ?
    Guys,

    I have been around here with most of you for a while now. I think we all have questions and some hesitations about a "big bad monster" coming to gobble up something we hold near and dear to our hearts. I know a lot of us have invested months worth of time convincing people to embrace Zimbra as a messaging platform. I like you, have a passion for open source projects and when I found Zimbra was extremely excited that I would have the features of Exchange, the easy of management like Kerio (minus those annoying bugs), and be able to support the open source community.

    I think that Zimbra has been struggling with the appropriate levels of communication, but just imagine how much is going inside the doors of Zimbra at this point. I have quickly reviewed the new YPL FAQs and the transition from ZPL to YPL appears to actually just simplify the licensing and only applies to those who use the Source not binary distros. As for hiding it from us, my RSS reader picked up on the blog posting, but perhaps they should do a clarifying blog post on the licensing?

    I have spent several days in San Mateo on specific projects and I have to say the folks there from receptionist all the way to Satish are incredibly dedicated to the mission that Zimbra set out to accomplish. While I have/had concerns about the Yahoo acquisition, I really do trust them that this is the best thing for the product we hold near and dear to our hearts.

    I would encourage everyone to take a look at the Licensing FAQ and continue a healthy conversation in here.

    Also, the SVN is coming. I have been nagging them myself as well. They have been undergoing a data center transition and as we all know they have been a bit busy. It is coming, just be patient.

    I should also mention that the opinions in this post are mine along and I am not posting under my moderator tag.

  9. #109
    dijichi2 is offline OpenSource Builder & Moderator
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    Hi gmsmith

    Great to hear positive note from a hosting partner. There has been lots of speculation and generally not very happy response to the purchase from the evil overlords, however its all gone a bit quiet now, hopefully everyone is reflecting and holding their breath hoping things will go OK. Personally I'm feeling much happier about the OS prospects than I was when the sale was announced, although the rather sudden and unannounced license/sourceforge change didnt help matters. I'm not great with licenses but as you say it does seem to just simplify stuff and not add any more conditions. Conspiracy theorists would wonder why the need for a change however, especially as the network edition stays the same (for now).

    I know the Zimbra guys are great guys, and they're gonna be sick of hearing this, but a simple statement from Yahoo would put all these fears and speculation to rest. Why haven't they?

  10. #110
    JoshuaPrismon is offline Zimlet Guru & Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by dijichi2 View Post
    Hi gmsmith

    Great to hear positive note from a hosting partner. There has been lots of speculation and generally not very happy response to the purchase from the evil overlords, however its all gone a bit quiet now, hopefully everyone is reflecting and holding their breath hoping things will go OK. Personally I'm feeling much happier about the OS prospects than I was when the sale was announced, although the rather sudden and unannounced license/sourceforge change didnt help matters. I'm not great with licenses but as you say it does seem to just simplify stuff and not add any more conditions. Conspiracy theorists would wonder why the need for a change however, especially as the network edition stays the same (for now).

    I know the Zimbra guys are great guys, and they're gonna be sick of hearing this, but a simple statement from Yahoo would put all these fears and speculation to rest. Why haven't they?
    Ignore the moderator badge above. This is my opinion only.

    I looked through the license, and from a layperson's point of view it looked fine. Simply a attribution and give it back clauses. Googling for the license didn't reveal anything (no hits for the license name) which makes me a bit more scared then the MPL derived license (which is Open Source certified), but I don't have anything concrete to base that on. The text looks okay.

    My guess is that the Yahoo lawyers got involved, and this is something Yahoo already was mooting. Yahoo to this point has mostly released their code under the BSD license, something that would never work for Zimbra's business model.

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