Zimbra vs. Scalix

[techieg]

Originally Posted by dazole2

Our, how about this solution:

Zimbra already has VAR's that resell licenses. Let the VAR break the licenses down. i.e. SomeCompany, Inc buys the bulk 25+ licenses. SomeCompany, Inc has a customer that only needs 5. SomeCompany, Inc sells the client the 5 licenses and either 1) handles the support issues or 2) sells a support contract with Zimbra.

Everybody wins. Heck, I'd buy some licenses *today* if I could. But I don't need 5, 25, 50, or 100. I need 2. One for me and one for my wife. I'd pay up to $149/year for that (same price as MobileMe, hint, hint).

Think about it:
25 licenses * $35 = $875
Mobile = $500
Total = $1375/year (about $55 per license)

1 license (including mobile) * $100 * 25 = $2500
2 licenses (including mobile) * $149 * 12 = $1788

The profit margin is pretty impressive. Especially considering all the VAR needs to do is generate a license. And it goes up the more licenses the VAR buys (up to $28/per license).
Heck, I might even consider becoming a reseller if that was possible...

Please, for the love of all thats holy, look into this, and soon!

Thanks,
David

There is a reason Microsoft sells licenses in packs of five (5). That is the smart way to do things so that businesses of all sizes can get to buy what they need in terms of license count and waste less of unused licenses. I am yet to find a more smarter business than Microsoft and I am not sure what Yahoo is aiming at with the Zimbra licensing model, which in mine and many others' opinions is not smart at all because it does not cater to any businesses' needs at all. If you have 10 users - buy 25licenses, if you have 30 users buy 50 licenses....absolutely senseless because it makes you spend more just to waste unused licenses when they could easily be made available in 5 packs. This is one of the reasons companies like Microsoft continue to out-profit others especially now that they have come up with MS Online Services suite at $15/user/month with the same licensing model or even better; http://www.microsoft.com/online/buy.mspx . One would think such competition would make Zimbra's licensing model to make more sense.

[rootako]

Yeah I agree with you in terms of pricing, Zimbra is quite high, the reason why SME companies are leaving MS Exchange is because of licensing and Zimbra simply lower this but its still expensive, for the standard and enterprise edition, the per user/year cost is still high, my clients said to me and I quote "why should i shift since the price of zimbra which cliams to be an open source company is asking almost half of the price of MS EXchange? There is no swooping change on the pricing!"

My opinion is., hope Zimbra can come up with unlimited subscription both for hosted and not hosted solutions especially in the third world country like ours, the Philippines, dnt be so microsoft otherwise you will be hated also by Linux and Open Source advocates.

My two cents...

[techieg]

Originally Posted by rootako

Yeah I agree with you in terms of pricing, Zimbra is quite high, the reason why SME companies are leaving MS Exchange is because of licensing and Zimbra simply lower this but its still expensive, for the standard and enterprise edition, the per user/year cost is still high, my clients said to me and I quote "why should i shift since the price of zimbra which cliams to be an open source company is asking almost half of the price of MS EXchange? There is no swooping change on the pricing!"

My opinion is., hope Zimbra can come up with unlimited subscription both for hosted and not hosted solutions especially in the third world country like ours, the Philippines, dnt be so microsoft otherwise you will be hated also by Linux and Open Source advocates.

My two cents...

There is no way Zimbra or any company will offer "unlimited subscription" without per user licensing fees. The only point you can try to make is to give you a better per license deal. The only way you can get "unlimited subscription" is if you run the open source and perhaps have a software development team to extend its features to include whatever else the commercial version does.

I'm not sure of what you mean by "dnt be so microsoft otherwise you will be hated also by Linux and Open Source advocates" when all I suggested was for Yahoo to sell Zimbra commercial licensing in 5packs like Microsoft does to suit any company size which is the smartest thing they will ever do. Besides, the conversation is about Zimbra commercial version and not the open source version so I'm unsure of what you mean that open source advocates will have an issue with what I said. Furthermore, the truth will always be the truth and it will set you free regardless what anyone thinks or feels about it. Everyone looking to adopt Zimbra commercial version has the same problem with the licensing model, so if Yahoo knows the truth I suggested in my previous post, they will heed it and set themselves and customers free....if they would only listen to their audience.

[ilsa]

I have to say that I've been following this thread with great interest because I'm in the process of starting up my own web hosting service and I wanted to provide clients with something more sophisticated than just basic email services.

For a variety of reasons, people have very clearly indicated that a) They are not willing to go the hosting route, and b) the initial barrier for zimbra NE is way too high for small companies.

So far what I'm seeing from the responses is nothing short of raw arrogance. "Just look at how cutting edge we are!" "We're worth the cost!" "If NE is too much, just purchase a hosting account!" "Just get people to use the web client instead of Outlook!"

I'm sorry, but no. People are going to use what THEY WANT to use. Especially if they've been using Outlook for a while, having them just jump ship and move to a different program is totally unrealistic.

Zimbra is a great system(arguably better than Scalix), but the simple fact is that many small businesses need more than what the stripped down OS version provides, but the NE version is unjustifiably expensive for anyone that doesn't belong to a large organization. No amount of thumb twiddling and chest-pounding is going to change that fact.

With respect to my own situation, I had originally set up Zimbra to provide groupware capability, but I have been forced to drop it. If people think that SMB version of Zimbra NE is expensive, they should ask about what Zimbra wants from hosting partners!

At this point I only have a couple of clients with a small handful of users, so the upfront cost of NE is impossible. And without the outlook connector, all the cool functions that Zimbra OS provides is hidden, making it no more valuable or useful than a basic installation of postfix+dovecot.

So now I am forced to do just that until I can find a better solution that will allow me to grow at the pace *I* choose. And that solution is looking more and more like Scalix.

[techieg]

And people wonder why Microsoft continues and will continue to be the market leader. While they make great products, their licensing model is still unmatched either on-premise or hosted, they make it well affordable to whatever size of business it may be so as to saturate the market which is what the name of the game is while also bringing advanced functionalities. This is besides the fact that Exchange and Outlook ties into lots of users' desktop app functionalities. So Yahoo!/Zimbra needs to get off the arrogance of "looking cutting edge" otherwise they will be their own biggest customer. If your licensing/pricing model is not attractive, majority of those you hope to win over will not budge. This is the only or should I say major Yahoo app offering and they are already arrogant and turning deaf ears to their community, I don't think they will go far like this. Go Microsoft, Go.

[raj]

Does the following help?

Zimbra Collaboration Suite is now available in a basic Network Starter Edition package for US $399. You get 15 Professional licensed mailboxes with native synchronization to Outlook and the Apple desktop, back-up / restore and more at over 50% off the normal Zimbra pricing.

ZCS Network Starter Edition is an annual subscription for software and updates only; it does NOT include Zimbra Support, though we have an excellent community to assist you!

Should you need more accounts you can of course upgrade to the Zimbra Network Professional Edition - which includes support & also allows you to license the Zimbra Mobile or Zimbra Archiving & Discovery add-ons.

Raj

[Klug]

Originally Posted by ilsa

I'm in the process of starting up my own web hosting service and I wanted to provide clients with something more sophisticated than just basic email services.
For a variety of reasons, people have very clearly indicated that a) They are not willing to go the hosting route

I don't understand your point : you want to start a hosting business while you're aware people don't want to be hosted (at least that's what some people say in this thread)...

Where is the step I missed?

[ilsa]

Originally Posted by Klug

I don't understand your point : you want to start a hosting business while you're aware people don't want to be hosted (at least that's what some people say in this thread)...

Where is the step I missed?

Sorry, I was just saying that some people have indicated that they don't want to outsource their email functionality for their given situation. For example, in my case people want to come to me as a one stop shop for web and email. If I were to turn around and outsource my email to another hosting provider, I would no longer be providing the one stop shop.

Another example would be that some people simply don't want their email managed by another company, preferring to keep everything in house.

That's all I meant about one not wanting to be hosted.

[ilsa]

Originally Posted by raj

Does the following help?

Raj

Well hello... That definitely looks way more attractive! I'm going to have to talk to my business partner about this!

I still say that it would be awfully nice to sell the outlook connector as an addon to the OS version of zimbra, but this new offering is definitely compelling.

Ilsa

[LondonConsultant]

We have a client with a 600 user Scalix install running on OpenLDAP, SLES10. Support from Scalix seems to be dieing and their supposed Blackberry Connect bombs out continually with more than 20 Blackberries.

We have been charged with finding an alternate. Blackberry isn't mandatory (otherwise we'd be only looking at MS-Exchange, Novell Groupwise or Lotus Notes) but a mobile platform is.

The client is currently investing heavily in a new VM SRM based server farm with plenty of blades to choose from.

Is Zimbra the best alternate on the block? Clearly you all think so otherwise you wouldn't be looking in the Zimbra forums but would any kind soul care to post up why you think it is? Perhaps you don't think its so hot and are looking elsewhere - so what are you looking at?

TIA