[holden]

Originally Posted by Baylink

You weren't civil (that was not especially a civil act -- based as it was on the fact that you apparently don't realize that no, Zimbra Desktop users are *not* the only people who can access Yahoomail via IMAP, and that hasn't been true for *at least* two years), so why should we be?

Really? Perhaps I'm missing something, when I connected to the Yahoo IMAP servers I had to send an ID saying I was Zimbra before they would let me authenticate. I also talked to the Yahoo! people at the hack day, and they said that Yahoo! didn't offer IMAP support. I didn't just use only my code to do this, I also attempted it in evolution since I figured my IMAP implementation could be a bit off. Perhaps I missed something incredibly obvious (does happen from time to time). I'd be very interested in knowing what the correct IMAP settings are, rather than my reverse engineered ones since that would help with a project I am working on. Could you provide a pointer to that? It would be greatly appreciated, thanks

I'm under the impression that I was reasonably civil, but we often have better opinions of our own behavior.

As to why you should be civil in general, I can't really make a good argument for that but it certainly would make this discussion easier.

Originally Posted by Baylink

I do think it's his fault, John; Zimbra is, effectively, so far as *I* can tell, a subsidiary of Yahoo mail -- I wouldn't be surprised if any given Zimbra employee needed to ask around to get in touch with any given Yahoomail employee, special case for ZD or not.

I'm not trying to place blame on Zimbra. My goal was to get this fixed. Perhaps Yahoo! was not the people to talk to, but they were sitting right across from me, and it was for Yahoo!'s IMAP servers so I figured they would be a reasonable group to talk to.

Originally Posted by Baylink

I'm not a cheerleader for Zimbra -- you can make your own decisions about that from the 36 bugs I filed last week; clearly I don't think Z is perfect. But I do think that -- unless you made some other attempts you haven't mentioned between mentioning to people at a hack day who weren't in the chain of command and posting it to frickin' Slashdot, that you could probably have chosen, at the very least, slightly less inflammatory language to discuss it in.

Not in the chain of command? Maybe I don't understand how this works, but they were on the dev side of Yahoo! (not like HR or ops). If they had asked me to talk to someone specific at Zimbra I certainly would have, but they were just uninterested. If you feel that my blog post was uncalled for, I would respectfully disagree, but I think this is one of those situations where neither of us will convince the other, so agreeing to disagree may be the best course of action?